Liminal Podcast

Art, Alcohol and Anarchy

June 22, 2020 Cate Blanchard AKA The Sober Painter, Gordon Hall and Joe Pearson Season 2 Episode 2
Liminal Podcast
Art, Alcohol and Anarchy
Chapters
Liminal Podcast
Art, Alcohol and Anarchy
Jun 22, 2020 Season 2 Episode 2
Cate Blanchard AKA The Sober Painter, Gordon Hall and Joe Pearson

Joe and Gordon catch up with their friend Cate, otherwise known as “The Sober Painter” in their first episode with a guest!

Cate is a Manchester-based artist, who spent 12 years in London based in theatre-making and education. Now completely Alcohol-free for nearly 10 months she sells and numbers her artwork, each day of her continued sobriety.

Show Notes

Check out this episode on YouTube
The Sober Painter’s Instagram
The Sober Painter’s Portfolio
The Sober Painter’s Website (All of Cate’s work is available to buy here)
The Unexpected Joy of Being Sober - Catherine Gray
The Unexpected Joy of Being Sober Journal - Catherine Gray
Alcohol Support (Drinkaware) 


Related Reading

This Naked Mind (Control Alcohol) - Annie Grace
The Sober Diaries - Clare Pooley

Liminal Podcast is about dealing with change, be that through humour, self-care, science, or spirituality. Join Joe and Gordon as they laugh and ponder, as well as speak to experts and friends, trying to figure out how to deal with life when the rug has been pulled from under your feet.

We’d love to hear from you! If you want to get in touch click here.

Liminal Podcast couldn’t happen without the support of our team, as always massive thank you to Harry for writing the theme music, Haley for creating our logo and Leah for everything she does behind the scenes. Thank you to everyone who rates and reviews the show, we really appreciate it.

Subscribe to Liminal Podcast

Apple Podcasts
YouTube
Spotify
Stitcher

Follow us on social media

Facebook
Instagram
Twitter
TikTok

Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/theliminalpod)

Show Notes Transcript

Joe and Gordon catch up with their friend Cate, otherwise known as “The Sober Painter” in their first episode with a guest!

Cate is a Manchester-based artist, who spent 12 years in London based in theatre-making and education. Now completely Alcohol-free for nearly 10 months she sells and numbers her artwork, each day of her continued sobriety.

Show Notes

Check out this episode on YouTube
The Sober Painter’s Instagram
The Sober Painter’s Portfolio
The Sober Painter’s Website (All of Cate’s work is available to buy here)
The Unexpected Joy of Being Sober - Catherine Gray
The Unexpected Joy of Being Sober Journal - Catherine Gray
Alcohol Support (Drinkaware) 


Related Reading

This Naked Mind (Control Alcohol) - Annie Grace
The Sober Diaries - Clare Pooley

Liminal Podcast is about dealing with change, be that through humour, self-care, science, or spirituality. Join Joe and Gordon as they laugh and ponder, as well as speak to experts and friends, trying to figure out how to deal with life when the rug has been pulled from under your feet.

We’d love to hear from you! If you want to get in touch click here.

Liminal Podcast couldn’t happen without the support of our team, as always massive thank you to Harry for writing the theme music, Haley for creating our logo and Leah for everything she does behind the scenes. Thank you to everyone who rates and reviews the show, we really appreciate it.

Subscribe to Liminal Podcast

Apple Podcasts
YouTube
Spotify
Stitcher

Follow us on social media

Facebook
Instagram
Twitter
TikTok

Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/theliminalpod)

Gordon Hall :

Hello, and welcome to the second episode of season two of Liminal podcast, Joe, how's it going?

Joe Pearson :

It's very good. Yeah. I mean, I am very good. Actually. It's an exciting time, because this is our first guest this week. We had you as a kind of standing guests to open up the season. But we've got a third person virtually in the room with us.

Gordon Hall :

Yeah, I'm excited. So Joe, who have we got this week.

Joe Pearson :

So our first ever guest is going to be someone a pretty incredible story. And this is someone we know, personally, incredibly inspiring. And she goes by the name of the sober painter. Now, about a year ago, she made a massive, massive change in our life. And ever since then, all of the energy from that change into something and that's painting. This week, we've got none other than the sober painter, which is keep lunch on So yeah

Gordon Hall :

hey Cate How you doing?

Cate Blanchard :

Hi God

Joe Pearson :

we don't start like that

Cate Blanchard :

is Am I breaking your Liminal podcast virginity? This is never gonna go Okay, is it? I'm just gonna be uncensored guys. You can just sense or whatever you like.

Joe Pearson :

That's absolutely fine

Gordon Hall :

yes you are actually our first guest Cate, you are taking our guests liminal vision.

Joe Pearson :

We're ready though. We're ready. Yeah, yeah

Gordon Hall :

10th episode. I think we've come of age.

Cate Blanchard :

Good, good.

Gordon Hall :

Yeah, yeah. How How are you? How's your day been?

Cate Blanchard :

Well, a hell of a day there but a productive one. Yeah, just yeah, that kind of lockdown scenario isn't it? I've been speaking to old university that I used to work for and talking to all the students on there who actually graduating I can't I can't think of what it'll be like to leave University in a state where you Don't see friends don't have those miles and things like that such a pivotal point in someone's life. And it's just gonna be dramatic.

Joe Pearson :

I know a lot of people who are in that exact situation. Yeah, but a few of them as well. You finished it, but I must not feel like you've finished it. Because there's no big graduation. There's no ceremony. It's just, it's just done. And you'll get your receipt of all your work

Cate Blanchard :

back. Learn to deal with grey Gray's ambiguous. Grey doesn't know what it is. Your son will just be this grey thing where people kind of come together. Do you know I've got a funny story? Actually. I want to hear it. Of course you do. It's like it was planned to be comical. It's not last night I was. The students that I've worked with a couple of years ago did an exhibition normally where they invite people in the theatre, profession, costume, etc. to come in and look at their work and share in it. And obviously the share couldn't happen we're normally invited to a private session. Milko down, have a drink, etc. but couldn't do it this year. So we were invited into different zoom rooms. Okay, which was it was very interesting exhibition was live and then we could go into different zoom rooms. So it was like mixing and everyone was when you when you went into the Zoom Room someone was sat there with a glass of wine, whatever, and you can have a chat with them. Okay, I don't use zoom. I saw I picked us up picked an area I was like theatre. Yeah, I'll go in there. And I went in and there was one of my favourite colleagues, and draya sat there with a glass of wine. And I was oh my god. We started swearing and talking of times past eight, nine people in the room. Oh god, I'm on an iPhone seven. So like 89 people are just watching me make a total ticket out of just going oh my god, babe, I love you so much. What you're up to Yeah, Manchester and then addresses okay. I have to tell you, you know, is it nine students here that want to say hello and I was like you want industry I just walked into basically what was a networking session for theatre by entering with no makeup on in a zoom call going

Gordon Hall :

That is incredible

Cate Blanchard :

never working again

Joe Pearson :

we've all had an embarrassing situation that during this lockdown, with the amount of video calls going on in the world I'm sure that's probably the not the worst thing we've ever heard.

Gordon Hall :

No

Joe Pearson :

I've seen a couple of videos that have circulated Twitter that are a lot worse than that. Let me say that

Cate Blanchard :

to be fair, it could have been a lot worse for me I think.

Gordon Hall :

I'm sure you're not

Joe Pearson :

close. But

Cate Blanchard :

what do you suggest I do Joe normally like take take my zoom meetings in my underwear just to be risky. That kind of that kind of

Joe Pearson :

you might do it how you are now kind of neck up. And then

Cate Blanchard :

this isn't a leopard print belly top.

Joe Pearson :

I don't know Don't

Cate Blanchard :

get too loose, maybe, maybe you want to go into I'm leading the podcast now I don't know what I'm doing. Maybe it might be a chance to introduce the audience to what we're actually doing what the setup looks like, over lockdown, so I can see you. I can see you and I can see Gordon, and you can see me. Can I can see an iPad. I've actually put them on easels. It's really funny. I've just stuck on easels on it in our spare room. Yeah, we purposely though, because Paul works in here. And he's like, an artistic dope. He's like a director of a business. So like sat at a desk. There's something in it as many people should have done.

Joe Pearson :

Yeah, it's a very important meeting. And we are kind of in an important meeting. We have a couple of things we want to discuss. I know Gordon wanted you to talk about something first, though.

Gordon Hall :

Oh, yes. Well, I think to start with, we should probably I mean, we've sort of introduced you already in the introduction, and we've said that you're known as the sober painter. But Cate, can you tell us a little bit more about maybe how that title came about? And that means that it came about because of quite a big change in your life. Maybe you could talk a bit about that change as well.

Cate Blanchard :

I've got so many things to say at this point. I could make a joke and be like, Well, when I first transitioned from being a man, it was no I'm not gonna do it. Aha, you can cut out.

Gordon Hall :

We don't want JK Rowling to be tweeting us.

Joe Pearson :

She makes something so good, but he's such a bad person.

Cate Blanchard :

I'm sorry. I'm sorry. All I got from that. She's not a man. Is she?

Gordon Hall :

No, no, JK Rowling is just a massive trans phobe.

Cate Blanchard :

Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, look, no come down my door, babe. I'll knock her out. Don't care about your Potter.

Joe Pearson :

Teaser, that could be, we've got a blooper folder. We'll keep it in there.

Cate Blanchard :

Actually, to be fair, I've never I've never really had to talk about this. It's like you can get away with going like the sober painter because it sort of explains itself. You've got to be pretty thick to not work out. There's some absence from alcohol in that car. Yeah. And, you know, that's what it is. So 29th of September 2019. I quit drinking for good, not just for like, you know, you've got all these things where you go dry January, I decided that I really didn't want to do it anymore. And because of the way that my life had got, and how horrible was, and I just decided that no more was no more. And then started on the journey of just not consuming alcohol on a daily basis, which is very much what I used to do.

Joe Pearson :

Have you tried before that was your first attempt? Or had you had a couple of goes absolutely mad kinda didn't happen? No, I bloody love drinking.

Cate Blanchard :

It's fantastic. It's one of the best things in the world until you love it a bit too much. And you start to need it a little bit more than you care to mention in your social group. And then you need it all the time. And then you need it to have sex and then you need it to be your character. And then you just get to need it quite so much and it takes you money and takes your personality I think a lot you'll probably get and for everyone that's listening, you'll probably get up to this moment. I'm pretty bonkers as it is. But I'm kind of now I feel like bonkers in a way where I can treat everything a little bit differently and it's not consistently influenced by life been around been able to have a drink of alcohol.

Joe Pearson :

It's a bit like we talked about last week with Gordon, it kind of forms your identity a little bit becomes so much as part of your life. Kind of don't know what you are without it in a way. I'm sure you probably felt a little bit of that at times. Maybe. I think you've been out of my job before on a night. Yeah, yeah.

Cate Blanchard :

Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of that and, you know, there's a lot of things that could be said for, for having a drink. You know, some people have a drink because it's the end of the day, they've had a hard day. I mean, we all work it's a natural go to isn't relaxing. So you end up paying a kind of part, which is if we're out on a night out, Cate's going to be drunk, Cate's going to be there and she's going to be outlandish and this is what's gonna happen and this is how it's going to go and someone will get home because they always do. And you know, in playing that part, it's great. You're always the life and soul. But you've got to kind of pick and put together what happened in that evening. And it gets old because sometimes there are some very awful things that happened in that evening that you can't take back.

Joe Pearson :

Yeah, and sometimes you don't remember them, which is even worse. You get told us something you've done, and you have no idea. I mean, sometimes.

Cate Blanchard :

Sometimes when it was very funny, actually,

Joe Pearson :

oh, yeah. It's always fun. It's always fun.

Cate Blanchard :

But it can it's that kind of abdication of responsibility. Where you kind of like, Oh, God, that I mean, I'd laugh at that. That was that was a sentence. Oh, so I mean, you know, when someone was to reiterate a terrible story that happened, I'd be like, come on. That's funny. That's really funny. And isn't it? Yeah. Then this that sort of detachment that comes from it and go No, that's me. You know, I did that. It's not me. been told a story by friends and I'm going Oh, yes, stupid prick. Yeah, that's great. It's a it's actually me that's done that and when it comes to be so detached when it's just a natural thing to go to that level straightaway, you just losing bits of your life really, I mean,

Joe Pearson :

it's a habit. And like all habits you you want to keep doing it because it makes you feel good. And it's sometimes when it doesn't make you feel good. You think well actually, if I try it again, I'll probably recreate some the memories I did enjoy, and you keep kind of recycling it. And we all have similar things that we go down and alcohol is probably the nation's most preferred way to do it. It's everywhere. And there's so many varieties of it, that you can have so many different ways to get drunk.

Cate Blanchard :

Yeah, I agree. Totally. I think that if there's one thing going celebrating and this concept of, I think a very British concept actually, of raising a glass offering a toast, you know, to you good wishes and things like that you can offer a toast with any liquid. A toast is a gesture.

Gordon Hall :

Yeah. Absolutely.

Cate Blanchard :

So you know, when did it have to be that inside that glass? Was alcohol and what how did that happen? And if you'd have told me two years ago, that I'd be sitting here having a conversation with you about it, I would have laughed in your face. Because it just wouldn't have been possible. It wouldn't have been in my little bubble around me that that could even happen because it I think it is a I don't know. Some people put lipstick on I used to put Volcker on probably. So how that would work. I don't know what that image is. Just me hitting myself with a bowl of stillage you're like, I'm ready to go out. Yeah, come on. I don't know. I don't know what that is. But that's that's what my you know, some people will pay it was it was my war pain. Because whilst I was drunk, could do anything and it didn't matter. And all those little or horrible little issues that you have in your brain Doesn't matter because you've got a solution. And the solution is you can do anything you want for the next four hours, and someone will look after you.

Joe Pearson :

Yeah. And it's a social thing as well, like, all your mates are there. Everyone else is doing it. So you kind of think it's okay. And it is okay to a point and you have to have control of and a lot of people can lose control, and they can very reliant on it and their lives, unfortunately, and I felt guilty of it myself when I was at university like it was two free nights a week without fail. It would have been a weird week if I've not been out and got hammered a couple of nights of the week. I wouldn't I feel alien.

Cate Blanchard :

Today, something really weird that I realised the other day. You know, when you kind of I'm one of those people that when you're drunk, you'll just buy the bar around. I don't know what it is and why people do it or why that kind of ticks in, but I realised I always offer drinks to people because it means I can go back to the bar. Get myself another and that just having that realisation like nearly a year on and realising that's why I did. Even if it's a shop No, no, no, you know, keep it down like that. That's That's awful to want to be around and be in alcohol that much and not take take some kind of pleasure in drinking and understand where it's come from it just to pour it down your face awful. Yeah gives me the shivers.

Gordon Hall :

So what changed? Why, why is it that you once were, you know, buying the whole bar a drink just so that you could get one for yourself and now you're looking back at that version of yourself and it's it's scaring you. What was happened to to spark that? I'm guessing something around the 29th of September last year.

Cate Blanchard :

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. There was a full moon gone. I just looked into it and thought you know what would be great?

Gordon Hall :

I'm joking.

Cate Blanchard :

Yeah, I mean it's an uneasy an easy subject as it always will be but health was a massive part of what was going on. And just to be seen that Mighty Boosh episode, when it's the crack Fox, and he goes the parody lifestyle took its tell

Gordon Hall :

I've not seen that episode I see.

Cate Blanchard :

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we were comparing myself to a gay Fox with need not need his fingers. But there are some similar

Gordon Hall :

now that you mentioned it, actually, I think I remember the episode

Cate Blanchard :

in my squishy boots. Because I'm gonna put you in a dress and hurt you. He's very funny. We do that voice a lot of work. No, it's um, it was awful. I mean, my health. was deteriorating in a way that I couldn't ignore in terms of, I call in sick to work, actually, and I've been sick. So there was logic in me not going to work because I was vomiting. The very thing that could cause that was last night. And it was to such an excess that I couldn't get myself up in the morning and shower because I was so ill. So I mean, we all kind of laugh and go, Oh my god, I thought last night, it was awful. But when the physical reality is, it's all the way through the night. And then, you know, you know, just blood and things like that and you think this is not okay. Like, but you never go to alcohol and go, Yes, you. This is the cause of it, because it seems so I was like, I went I was drinking too much coffee. It just never never occurred to me that it could be anything to do with alcohol. It was never in the picture. That would be the cause. I went see a doctor. And from a mental health as well, I mean full disclosure with it. I'd been in this kind of repetitive strain of drinking, depression, drinking, depression, drinking depression, just an ongoing cycle and drug use as well. So kind of using those those elements to really just blot out anything that I was feeling, because it was okay, because I was in that place. And in that place, it's safer. I suppose you could say. Yes, so combination of all those things went to a GP had a very honest conversation with the GP, which was probably the first stage in recognising that something wasn't a normal way of experiencing alcohol.

Joe Pearson :

And their reaction,

Cate Blanchard :

really, really fancied her so it was really hard to gauge and you bet, distract It? Well, it's very hard to see because when I really fancy someone I can't lie. It's just what it is. But it makes money and you know, people who don't fancy have lied to all the time. Really. I'm joking. But if I really fancy someone, I can't believe I'm saying this as well. Now everyone's gonna know it'd be like, if I'm really fancy, someone, I can't lie to them. Okay, because I can't bring myself to lie to them. Therefore, I started telling this GP everything about my bloody life possible. And I just couldn't stop it come out, and I was like, I was so hot. And then I was like, oh, suicidal. Everything just just kind of came out in this way. And she was just like, okay, okay. What do you think's too much to drink? And she was like, don't say the whole bar. And I was like, God, she's so fit. And then I say, Okay, well, I have to think about this. And I thought everyone said three bottles of wine. In the evening, I think is too much to drink. And she was like, Okay, yeah, it didn't react. And till that point, you know, it didn't occur to me that anything was wrong really either. And then I was like, Oh, you know, Portland half of Jagermeister probably is too much. And she was like, Okay, well and then she just showed me the units recommended for men and women and compared them and then she showed me how many units I was consuming a week. And then she showed me in in kind of pictorial format, sort of adjusting you know, what would happen to my body if that continued then what would happen to my skin and how it works is just like well it's gonna be really really difficult and I'm gonna smoke a hell of a lot more cigarettes but let's do this

Joe Pearson :

of course cuz you know, yeah to be absolutely nothing Are you carry on? Yeah. Couldn't do, I'm gonna go out once a week and have a glass of wine. Maybe every other night, that kind of thing you knew it had to be nothing.

Cate Blanchard :

I think knowing more about myself now than when I started this, you know, I have a very, very addictive personality in terms of it happens with everything people, if it if it tastes good, I want to get it like as near me as possible all the time as much as possible. And some people would just call that greedy, but you know, we can just really bloody creepy. Yeah, I mean, I never never want the party to end in life, let alone alone in a night. So yeah, it was it, I knew it would be difficult. And I also knew that that there must be more than this. And it must be, there must be something that people enjoy because not everyone is like this. And there are people that seem happy. And you know, even if they're not happy, I'd still like to become sober and join them all in See if it's all a big lie anyway. And that's just as intriguing. So, yeah. So I don't often talk about this, but it's really interesting to hear myself talking about it actually.

Gordon Hall :

Well, I'm sure it is interesting for our listeners as well,

Cate Blanchard :

using these four pairs of ear pods. They're great. Yeah.

Gordon Hall :

So you decided to become sober. And through that, somehow, you became the sober painter. Can you talk a bit more about how that happened?

Cate Blanchard :

my close friend Zoe Marsh will be the first to tell you. I came up with this concept quite early on. And then, you know, been a very incredible support network that she is she alerted me to the fact of it. If I wanted to go through with my idea of painting one painting a day for every day I was sober, that I'd actually have to To campaign Well, no.

Joe Pearson :

Yeah, it's not just an idea. Now there's a lot of work. Yeah,

Cate Blanchard :

I didn't follow you very much the way she sees things that so somehow, I don't think that way because she pointed out that it's been a couple of weeks now and I hadn't done a painting at all. So yeah, you're not ready yet. I don't feel I don't feel it yet. She has, okay. So the world just waits. Okay, you know, ambience waiting for you to release your magic upon the world. And I thought, that's very, not what the world does. So I began painting, but I decided that I needed something to do. I like doing the things an awful lot must be always doing always on the go. And, you know, drinking works really well with that because there are more than one bar bars in cities and you can move between them. You can lose days drinking absolute days and you You know, my life was pretty much that so I knew if I wasn't able to do that I need a hell of a lot to kind of occupy myself with, didn't have a lot of money had a hell of a lot of debt from university. So, you know, I don't know, you know, yachting wasn't an option. So I've been that kind of thing I've been through, been through university as a set designer. I've done a lot of filmmaking, video editing, teaching, but I've never had a chance to sit down with a paintbrush. And I always had a chip on my shoulder that the people that I went to uni with, had all done art foundations. I was the one person in the class that hadn't done one. It seemed a bit like yourself to me. Everyone would sit there and go, Oh, do we remember your foundation? And I've sit there and I've done one and done our foundation. Oh, you must have done Not foundation. everyone's done Art Foundation. Yeah. What did you specialise in somewhat about painting? What is this, this mythical out foundation of which you speak? I'm going to make my own. Because that's what I say about every item in the world. I'll just make one, it's fine. So I basically did that I decided to explore different mediums, working with different textures, canvases, things like that, and just found a real kind of release in it. And I never tell anyone, but I have a phone app and a diary. So the phone app allows me on that particular day of my sobriety to enter my mood. So how I'm feeling how I started and how I finished the day. And so I've been filling that in for the entire time. Do you want me to see what I'm on now?

Joe Pearson :

Yeah. What's your mood?

Cate Blanchard :

My mood now?

Gordon Hall :

Mmm.

Cate Blanchard :

Oh I'm giddy to be around you darlin. It's nice, nice to talk to you. It's nice to be talking, two five, six. So just pass the 200 day, mile. And yeah, so I had my moods. And then I also kind of keep a journal. I've always journaled ever since university I think it's one of the most effective releases of stuff that's happening, not journal in the sense of sitting down and going, Dear Diary, today, I went to the shop. It's more kind of images, poems, thoughts, feelings, cutouts. Yeah, basically, I just kind of live my life like that. I'm, I'm sort of going through an autism diagnosis, which is throw me right in at the deep end with what that is and how that works. And it turned out that routine is pretty important to me. I'm being diagnosed with high functioning autism is rarely diagnosed and rare, really rarely found and things like that. But I was like, sort of put two and two together. I was like, okay, so got this kind of like curse and incredible power at the same time. So if I can implement my need for structure and routine into giving up something that's disrupting my structure and routine, can I therefore impact really and change something quite big in my life, following this pattern of what my brain enjoys. So, the idea came to then paint a picture a day or try to and if you know, not, not control it, but if I missed a day, just jot that day down, you know, write about the feelings, things like that. So I'm left with a kind of catalogue of if I want to go and explore what I felt and why it was difficult. I can go there. Thomas, I can you know, The Nightmare Before Christmas. Have you seen it? Yes. where he's like in Christmas Town, he goes into Christmas Town, he goes back to Halloween Town and there's like these, like trees there, I can go to any place I want in my head and that way, because if you find it too difficult, if that's like, if I had a really, really sick day or something happened, something impacted me, given the current situation, that could happen anytime. You know, I don't have to visit that just yet. I can just keep it there until I want to go and explore it through the medium of sort of art therapy. Really, I suppose that's what Okay, in its basic term, you would even say what I'm doing. I'm,

Joe Pearson :

I'm interested in how public you've done it as well because not a lot of many people would do that to public facing profile and it's people are obviously sharing it amongst other people is very inspiring and would help a lot of people. Do you think that helps you in a way that you know, everyone's kind of watching through Instagram and social media.

Cate Blanchard :

Oh, I mean, I'm more interested to think Why it will be wrong to post it publicly. I understand that, you know, the if something goes wrong with me if I if I relapse for example, the reciprocation what that looks like to the members, the public, but to be honest, you know, it's my my recovery, I couldn't really give a shit if I relapsed in terms of what people think. But it is it is a helpful thing to think. I mean, we don't have to sit there and go, I don't care what anybody else thinks, but we'll put we do. And that's a consideration somewhere. Yeah, I think just because, you know, it's, it's so powerful in advertising, when they bank that model that they wanted or that band to from a campaign and you know, things that when you see something that shouldn't automatically go together. It just makes such a powerful impression. And, you know, if I was so the other end going out and bid like that, it sort of made sense to so publicly say this is this is what I've done. I think My life had literally got that awful, that I wanted to have this kind of rebirth of Tell me what I was doing. Because it was cathartic to release that part of me. I think, yeah. If that makes any sense at all.

Joe Pearson :

It might have been something subconsciously you kind of let go have that kind of life you were living before, even though you kind of done it already. Everyone else is aware of it. And you can just completely cleanse yourself of it in a way.

Cate Blanchard :

Hmm, yeah, definitely.

Gordon Hall :

Yeah. It's, I kind of feel I think I talked about this a little bit last week. And there was a similar thing that happened to me. When I left the church by I made it a public thing in the sense that I wrote a blog post about it, I think, in some ways it it makes it more final. It's like I've made this decision. I can't turn back now. At least For the moment, because I've said, Here I am, this is, you know, for you, and the cyber painter, you can't. If then the next day you said, Oh, okay, maybe I'm not now, it would have, you know, it gave you I guess a reason to keep going, if that makes sense, because you'd put it out there. And it also meant that people knew so that they'd be able to how do you account for that, if that makes sense?

Joe Pearson :

and reach out and help you and have that kind of random informal chat and see where you're at and check in? Because if not, I'm sure as much as you think it was so public, both of your guys stuff. It probably wasn't the most people you've interacted with. They might have seen it on a night out or seen you in some kind of picture on Facebook, in a church or something, but actually, they probably didn't pay that much attention. People are very self centred. Most of the time. We're in our own heads in many ways. You know, we see other people's issues, then we move on what my do.

Cate Blanchard :

I'm gonna give you a list, Joe, and I'd like you to Visit those people that I and embarrass 12 Strunk, you can. You can ask them if they're not, they didn't really pay much attention when it gets to that at the time, but they will soon forget, we have very short memories with most things. I'll give you a shortened list that you can ask those people if they'll forget.

Gordon Hall :

I think certainly what I found when I kind of went through my, the change that I went through was that it was almost a chance to reinvent myself and say, an almost or not, not necessarily reinvent myself. That sounds like I'm creating something that's not me. It was more I was finding who I actually was, do you feel that kind of thing that is almost you while you were drinking it, it masked, some of who you actually were or stopping drinking allowed you to discover different levels of yourself. Making Sense

Cate Blanchard :

you are making total sense. I was just I was just been polite Gordon and then yeah, sorry,

Gordon Hall :

I just rambling. No. Yeah,

Cate Blanchard :

it's very weird because if you have a rabbit if you have a rabbit good so like a very that's very good. If you have a habit of just rambling I'm trying this new thing which is listening will just gonna be this. You will just be rambling. I'll just be listening. Joe, what would you like to do? I want to play the tambourine.

Joe Pearson :

I'll record it.

Cate Blanchard :

And no, yes, it very much. Very much into image I think. I think I like to reinvent myself anyway. You know, anyone that's worked with me will see. I'm no stranger to changing things up a little bit, If required, and I get that from my idol. Who's bow he actually David Bowie. Robert Jones. You know, I guess so growing up in that man just just everything that I wanted wanted to be. And I saw success through consistently changing image and rolling with the times, you know, ambiguity and learning to adapt to that, just, that's how my philosophy has always been really. So making such a change. It's, it's amazing to see what things have come out of it. Because, again, with autism and routine, I'm falling into patterns. So I'd go through this dramatic like, alcohol based event that happened in my life. And you know, it will be big news, Cate did this, Cate did that. And then I come into work the next day with my head shaved, because that was my kind of cleansing routine. And I believe that if I went and did something quite shocking, I'll show marbles. You know, no biggie. If I if I went and did something like that, then it's almost like a visual reset. So you know, I was resetting my myself to people to say, Well, you know, john Cate did that but now she's got no hair. So it can't possibly be the same person. And I think what's come from from this and kind of putting a lot of thought and feeling into painting something on a canvas, you know, I don't paint myself as much, huh. And my hair, I would never let my hair get like this in a million years. It's like, and call it lesbian chic at the moment, but it's kind of I would never let it be this way and just be unruly and just grow and I was saying to my psychologist, she's, she's ever so good. And I was saying, you know, I'm just leaving my hair to grow. She was like, God, that's massive for you. I was like, I know it's probably gonna get really like big and I don't even care because, you know, we've been in lockdown for how many weeks we've been in job pants. No one's gonna look at me. And she was like, well, maybe it's just you becoming a little bit more comfortable in yourself as well and not needing all the accessories. To be who you are, maybe you have enough accessories and don't. I mean, there's always time for accessories, he says with brand new glasses on a face. But, you know, maybe just maybe you're just a bit more comfortable in who you are, and in been more comfortable with who you are, you then turn around to the people and say, Well, I'm quite comfortable with it. So if you don't like it, I'm really not that bothered. And then you start thinking a little bit more like that. And suddenly, the world is just a great place to inhabit just being you know, gone are those worries of Thank you didn't text me back. That was mean that they don't want to see me. You know, that's just becomes they're busy. And he kind of just the world just gets a little bit easier. Because you're not thinking about where you're going tonight. You've just painted like 10 coasters, and it's all just chilled out to the point where you're like, yeah, Probably yeah play some PlayStation now watch watch your film and you don't need that kind of that they used to go out just to be out like just to be stood there with everybody and he you know, tenor in your bank account I'd still be sat there with an awful I used to drink special brew to go and have a special brew before I went out then I drink a really shitty pint of wetherspoons like I'm talking like a one pound 60 ale and a try try and big belly and be that person that like that but the harsh truth is nobody bloody likes. Nobody likes Eccles ale. Sorry Weatherspoon. Sorry equals Oh, sorry, apples actually, just sorry, Eccles. But But you know, nobody likes that and you're not hip and you're not cool. You're just trying to get as much uncle as you can. For as little money as you've got and that doesn't make you sexy. That doesn't You like, like with nail and I it makes you like, you know, no nails and cry. The sequel.

Joe Pearson :

I used to work in a pub. And I used to work in the kitchen, I would get there at 10 o'clock in the morning, prepare everything. And there will be people outside the pub, waiting for it to open at 11 o'clock. And it wouldn't. It might be surprising to you that normally 10 or 15 people all knew each other. And this was their complete life and they would drink all day. And that's what it was, is still a massive part of British culture we see everywhere. I think part of the problem is that it's legal. So it kind of always seems okay. And because it's everywhere. I mean,

Cate Blanchard :

I'm not gonna sit here and say Jenkins wrong. I'm gonna sit here and say, you know, drinking was wrong for me. And that's the only way in which I can. I can I can have my opinion in that sense. I cannot tell you about your body because your body is yours. And you can do whatever you want to. I think everybody's human right? specially specially at the moment, but you know, you couldn't you couldn't even damage yourself a lot. Bye by trying to be cool trying to be I think it started for me. I come from quite small village so there's not a lot to do and I mean you don't see as much now but I'm work from been 13 I mean by 14 years old I added income that was probably better than today in terms of pot washing and paper rounds and you know lack of dedicated areas for cash. You know, when you're that age, there is nothing else to do but to go to the corner shop and get a bottle of vodka because that is the coolest thing that you can do at 15 in my area. I thought a cigarette make Richmond Super Kings in the long boxes. When you do tennis, and you know it I was I was just I was so cool because I used to be I had facial hair, and I told the story, Gordon, now, you know, I feel like I've told this story maybe Taryn in the garden I think we've been catching up but I was in I cut all my hair off at 15 was big into Bally big into kind of like rebel rebel this Diamond Dogs and all that kind of like red style hair cuts. So I did that I took my mom kind of do this and stupidly she was of course Why don't you and then I had hair like that from 15 so I was a very kind of an older looking child. I used to zip my orange copper jacket right up to the top where medallions you know I can the recently banned Little Britain when she was like Yeah, but no, but yeah, but no, but yeah, yeah, yeah, I looked exactly like her and across between Linda from give me give me give me a shout out Tell me when I was in a public pool when I was 13 on a float, and they were like, Oh, it's Linda from gimme, gimme, gimme, I was so fat, and I was so pissed off about that, that had nothing to do with my descent into alcohol, but maybe it did

Joe Pearson :

come in together now. Also,

Cate Blanchard :

you know, I was, I was just really just bored. And it was so easy. And that, you know, when something becomes easy, it becomes easy to repeat. And that was that was just it, then I find something that was really good at, you know, that I could I could do that no one else could, I can go into that shop and no one else would get served, it would only be me. And then I'm going to be able to go into that pub and get served and it would only be me before long the pubs around me to point out who was under age under age. So I started managing at a local pub. Because the owner I mean, I shouldn't talk too much but the owner the owner didn't. So I was left, you know, 17 years old managing a small bar. And, wow, it's in the village, we're allowed to do that kind of where we were but, but it's that kind of mentality that gives gives you a very kind of adult look at drinking from a very early age. And you it just becomes that normal and the thing that you can do, but you know, those people that stand outside the pub Jota kill to get into it. They're only kept there by each other. I think it would only take one person out that pub to go, I'm not going to do this today. And then where the where the rest of it would take a while to die down because you know if it were if it were a different pub that has kind of offers on and branch offers, you could stay in there all day quite happily. I mean, I'd probably do it once. And so but but yeah, it it's just breaking that cycle. It's hard to do. It's really difficult because there's such a lot of pressure put on us, you know, to go out and be that person Everything's done on a dating app, you know, seeing pictures, you know, you've got to be so happy and so, so, so powerful and have such a great life in that first half an hour of meeting that person that you've talked to for the last six days on a mobile phone, and, you know, drink helps that drink helps. It's a libation, it always has been so it helped you to feel calm. And at ease, it's just when that tips over, you know, it's also is, every time every drink you have, it's almost like an anaesthetic because you're getting less and less able to kind of be aware and to feel and more and more abdicating control. So you know, it can be can be quite easy to fall into that.

Joe Pearson :

I think. When it's positive, it can be great. And if you can control it, it can be a healthy release for people, especially in the world we live in right now. Again, not for everyone, I could see you making faces Gordon bar. For some people, they would have needed alcohol in their life to carry on. As simple as that, or at least keep it together for that moment in time. It's good that it's there. But it's often can go way, way too far the other way. And I think most people have experienced that. I've had some kind of experience of that.

Cate Blanchard :

I think, you know, it's what it's one of those things that just, it's bizarre. It's like coffee, it's just accepted. People can take a voluntary strike of it if they want to, and raise money people, you know, give money for people that are saying, I'm not going to bother to do it for this month. And everyone's like, yes, incredible. Favourite charity, money. So, you know, I don't very often eat dates. I think last time I had to date was probably two years ago. I'm very curious. Are they a fruit? I mean, I can't even answer this. I know they make you go to the toilet. That's probably No, but you know, if I turned around and said, You know, I'm stopping dates for a year, everyone would be like you crazy. Why? Why? But let's have some reason. Alcohol is this way and people go, I don't want to compare it to a date. I just had dates on my mind. It's my title is my new album, dancer my mind, Mama, I am

Joe Pearson :

locked down like you're experienced in different foods. Everyone's boarded the same meal, but just try and loads of crap. We've never tried for 50 years to see if we like it again. Now.

Cate Blanchard :

I have them I have a shameless plug. If I can if I can make that close. Yeah. So what I found really hard when when starting this was someone that was like me, because I'm going to speak quite frankly here, and which I always do, you know, I'm well pleased that sounds so who's 50 has stopped drinking because if he continues to do it, He'll have a heart attack, you know, he's lived a long life. And that's what you should be doing at that age, we should all watch what we drink and stuff. But I find it really hard to find someone not like, I'm older than you guys, but like my age sort of bracket that was experiencing this. And going through this because it's just, it's bizarre that like, everyone, when I told them was fine, mostly, but there's some people that you could see, were worried that I wasn't having a good time ever, and that I would need to have a pint to be Cate, that I'd automatically you know, as soon as I went and got a cocoa from the bar, that would mean that you know, my whole, my whole body went when black and white and monotone and the group scales and then couldn't speak to anyone. It's not really like no and that one of the best things I found was a book called The Unexpected joy of been sober. It's by a lady called Catherine grey. And Catherine is nothing like me. She's an extremely successful past editor of several very famous magazines and a lot of her job and that she could go in interview celebrities whilst having free drinks. And she describes very acutely in the book, her downward spiral of this London life of parties parties and celebrities and everything like that and how she never knew she was an alcoholic until, you know, something, as I've described, quite jarring happened and woke her up in that sense from from what she was experiencing. And it's just a great read and she tells it like it is, and there's some harrowing stuff is this really, really quite funny stuff. And she tells me a double tale about what she broke up in a police station with nothing but a plastic hairbrush and God, stories that you laugh at, you know, like, when I fell asleep in front of a pet shop, it's, it all just connects and you just really But you're not on your own. And how incredible to notice this about yourself. This kind of age, you know, 20s to 30s to 40s. And then of course, like into 50s and 60s but in in as a younger person or a person, you know, not x not having that in the world and not doing that. Hmm. Do I mean, I think everyone asked me is, you know, do I want a drink right now? Yeah. I've never stopped wanting a drink. Every time I I in my fridge at home. I live with two wonderful boys. And Tara was given a bowl of Ballinger for Christmas. It's work and it's like there's become this weird Totem in the fridge and I pull it to move it when we stocked up the fridge. I was like, No, no, you can't do that. Can't do that. He goes, Well, it's Ballinger Cate, you're not going to drink it, are you? I was like no. And that's precisely the reason why it must stay there. And then provide you've likened this bottle of Ballinger to it calibre. Yeah, yeah, that'll be it. And he doesn't, if I remove it, I therefore remove your ability to not drink anymore. I was like, look just Can you just play along. So it'll be more helpful than me really asking you not to remove the bottle of Bollinger in the fridge. So he's played along for the moment. And if he takes it out, I just put it back in anyway. Because that's what you do with the Sword in the Stone if you did it by when you do it when no one was looking, and you just whip out the sword and be like, I did it and then put it back number one, like crowds around it, you'd be like, bastard, I'm already done it. Because you comfort with a little bit in your home. You know, at any point you could down that whole bottle of wine and you could be out of your mind, if you want it to be bringing into balance. You know, it's this sort of weird thing about perpetual balance. And I don't know if it's spiritual um, you know, I've listened to your podcast God and when you spoke about religion personally, and I'm I'm sort of A bit with Joe in the sense of the I believe in an energy. I don't believe in a specific God, I've never found God in that sense. But, you know, there is, I believe in kind of the quest for balance. And I don't know how you can quantify that. So the idea that at any one time, I have the ability to undo myself, but being control of that undoing is very powerful to me. And because I used to undo myself on purpose,

Gordon Hall :

an awful lot.

Cate Blanchard :

So having the ability to choose and not follow a path or like that I would go down regularly really sits well with me and again, is just discovering bits about yourself. Because I was I was so focused on having a drink. I didn't notice all the weird stupid things that I do. So I have these little like, favourite light routines that I had no idea happened because I've been more bothered about getting a drink that would you know, that addiction would maintain. So when that addictions not there, I'm so bloody weird. It's unreal. I can never hope to shock anybody because I don't know what I do in the morning. If they woke up I'd be like, buzzing away in my bedroom making coasters. They think I was insane. Do you do you protect yourself by having these things, whether it be in perpetual motion or whether it's a little routine, you know, we as humans arm ourselves with this toolkit to survive. And it's just experimenting with your toolkit. And working out what what you need with you every day.

Joe Pearson :

The problem of consciousness, we're so conscious, it's it can be hurtful in your brain. You're like, wait, what am I doing? Why did I do that yesterday, so you try and then you try and manage it that day. Then the next day after that, you're straight back to where you were, again, it's really hard.

Cate Blanchard :

You are right, to an extent but I believe it's more of an unconscious. I think we're all unconscious. And I think you know, that you could say and I mean, this is good. very opposite way, but, you know, we fed these things in order to keep us this way. And by by not feeding in to the every day every day in the normality that we've created, I, you know, getting really pissed at the pub on a Friday and stumbling home spending all your wages stumbling home doing it again on Saturday, cuz What else can you do? Because it's hairy the dog, you know, you know, going out or you know, are we not actually just allowed to do this because it keeps us quiet, then we will not ask those difficult questions about you know, who did this what did this What's wrong with our government? What's wrong with America and we could go on and on and on with that. But I think a lot of it is you know, it's challenging, challenging going well, no, I'm sick of this boring now. You got to drink so many pints. You know, and you know, I used to hate To the awful stage that you get to when you've made a miscalculation it's very real. What happens is you've drank an awful lot, but by some weird bizarre thing you're not drunk. It happens to us all. Yeah, I used to hate it is absolutely perilous. You've literally thrown Yegor Meister down your throat and it's not doing a bloody thing. And it's like, what is this What's happening? And then you go for that fact don't you you go outside and you just go you're on the floor and I'm like, What is this economy can never predict it. It's never predictable. You know, if you have a pizza something else happens massively different if you don't eat a pizza and I used to go out and do do one of my specials where it's not eat the entire day in there for only need three double Volkers and I'd be away. And it becomes this bizarre kind of, you know, self harm, almost, you know, I'm gonna do this. It's fine. I'll get through quicker that way. And, you know, we're just allowed to consume it.

Joe Pearson :

Because emotion dumbs you in a way it kind of numbs you for that evening, then you get to reset, and then you can numb yourself again. And you can just keep kind of going that cycle and then suddenly your days aren't as long as they feel 20s drinking Time passes like crazy. You know, you check your watch. And it's like, off to don't even know what bar you're in, you start looking around what your friends are still here, and then you find your friend on the dance floor and you just carry on. And then that's what drinking can have. It can really

Cate Blanchard :

only go away. I used to just find friends on the dance floor that I've never even met before, but they were my best friends. We go way back. Just how far back to go about five minutes, actually, but we've had such a connection. Oh my god.

Gordon Hall :

Yeah,

Cate Blanchard :

there's only been there's one time certain people laugh, listening, because they probably know the story. I'm going to talk about But I went to a Marilyn Manson concert. And I was that that drunk I left, the person I was with, ran to the front of the stage and launched myself over a long haired kind of golf male, who at the time I believed was Marilyn Manson. And I held him for his entire set. I couldn't believe my look that I was been selected to hold Marilyn to his entire performance. And I went back to Zoey and said, God, he was incredible, wasn't it? I touched him, touched him because I don't know how, okay, because he's broke his leg and he sat in the wheelchair at the back of the stage. Just spin feelings on the inside performance score. Um, you know, it's really funny because someone very, very importantly to me turn around and said, I'm in so excited about that concept. You've been talking about it for so long. And you just went and did that. Wow. Why would you do that? And it started around that time, and I just went, well, why wouldn't I do that that had become my level of enjoyment. That's how I measured having a good time. Because it's a story to tell. Right? And I think, you know, we all talk about, like, being a great storyteller. Are you a great storyteller? What does it mean to tell stories but those stories are only ever okay? If you're able to look back on them and laugh for what they are, which is awful things that happened that shouldn't have done and you've got to surround yourself with people that remind you and do ask those questions and do challenge you and say, you know, you would you really, you know, you need to have people in your life that check you and go Why did you do that Cate? Because if you have people that just laugh with you and go, okay, you're so funny. You'll just end up doing this over and over again. And it just for anyone that Listening and just can feel a little bit the same. You know, try it, just try it. Again back to me.

Joe Pearson :

This lockdown must've probably had a similar impact for some people, though, because people literally can't go out. So there's probably people battling with it right now. And maybe that going out drinking is turned into home drinking, which I would argue is probably worse. Because if you're drinking in your home to a massive extent every day, that's going to have a bigger impact on your life. And suddenly your whole environment is drink. There's no escaping even in your house.

Cate Blanchard :

It depends on Association as well because I'm, you know, and we'll be in the future seeing family and they are in their own rights, alcoholics and going home and, you know, not not too bad mouth where I'm from or anything like that. But one of the first questions was, well, I've got the bottle of gin for Christmas, you know, it's an income lenience that you're not drinking with us. Right? We've been involved all this for you, you know, how can you see? Yeah. And then then it becomes Well, are you okay? We'll stop out of it. You can have a glass of wine you fine. No, it's, you know, it's about me wanting to have it's like making a choice like being a vegan. vegetarian, it's me making a choice saying I don't I don't want to take that into my body. I'm happy for you to do it. And I don't have a problem with what you're doing. But for me, I don't want that anymore. And I'm really bloody strict with that choice. And it there have been some times that I've had to go I just go to a toilet once again. And I'm just managed to time it. Just as some lady was coming in it she probably had a like a like at the end, but didn't get the whole of the the auto scream of terror. That I must admit like I really needed the toilet or It was really incredible to reach the toilet after been so desperate for it or so because I just left out this euphoric like, ah, because it is so hard to break a habit. But what's amazing about breaking one, just one, I mean, I'd urge anyone to do it because once you break one, it becomes very easy to break others and just alter that thought process to. It's almost like he bought the same way home from work every day. And you miss paths that you could walk down where you see a lot more and taking a lot more just because that passes the way that you go. Yeah, and when you've got a brain that's especially into repeating pathways again and again, you really have to sit with yourself. It's a lot of meditation. You know, a lot of Listen, I've listened to a hell of a lot of john grant and Nick Cave nine weeks I've been very sombre, in that sense kind of concentrating on it. You know, people don't want an introvert really, they don't want someone that sits at home, listening to Nick Cave and paints, you know, day what they want that person, that social person to go out. And I think we've all kind of battled in this time, what that means and how much of that we're willing to give. And I certainly going forward. After this, we'll be thinking a lot more about who I spend my time with and how it's spent. And I think going going forward and moving on you know, many people will have a hobby that turns into an addiction over this time, and some people will have, you know, an addiction that turns into a hobby that turns into a sobriety and anyone can go either way with it, but You know, it only becomes an addiction because you repeat it. That's the best kind of words I can give. I have stopped smoking. And just because it felt odd because I associated so much having a glass of wine with a ciggy Don't talk to me about smoking ban when that happened, it was awful. I didn't know what to do. But I associated it so much with that that not having one men deal there couldn't be enjoyed as such. Right? And that's powerful because that's the power of choice making a choice for yourself. And also, you know, really thinking about what you like it's it's the power that you like, if you I would change everyone one one thing I did when I started doing this was I wrote down everything I lived. I'm talking like, some weird stuff on there. What sweet potatoes really like them. They're really good really go with anything, but like, serene you talks about the loss of love. Yeah, I'm really passionate about No, that's a brand but you know, everyone loves a pack, but wrote things down on the middle. You can that's a favourite of mine as well. But, you know, do we do we ever go to the supermarket and put in our shopping baskets what we actually want? No, we never do, because we go and we try and make some some shit recipe of food that we think will go together. But it will actually go together when we get home. And when I if only had about that peanut butter to go with that that would have. Yeah, the whole meal together. So we go around in this way, like putting the same things in. So it's even worse when you have a partner because the parent will be like, did you get the dishes to get the broccoli? And you'll be like, Well, no, because we agreed that we weren't having broccoli anymore. No. I said get the broccoli. Because the way we you know and then that happens. You know why don't we all start going to supermarkets and putting it in the trolley. What we actually want to eat, you know if I had natella on chips the other day A compliment, like the world is, is really changing with things and you know, no one's going to pop their head round the door in your house and be like, Why are you eating a tenner? On chips? Because Because no one will because everybody's so busy like thinking about what they're going to eat in the supermarket. I mean, now more than ever, we're on show. Because now when you pass someone in a queue, it's it's, it's almost perilous, because because they're gonna they're gonna infect you, but at the same time you have a good look at what's in that basket, don't you? You go to your main shop. This is just your face, isn't it? She's just put, just put your bits in there because no one in the right mind would buy bleach and grapes unless they were probably dyeing hair and making a Roman add. I don't know like togas, that's all. But you know these. It's bizarre how much we plough our parts because we think other people are like that. How many times have you put something in your trolley? So you know, the lady at the checkout is going to be like, oh, that person's really healthy.

Joe Pearson :

Quinoa oooh

Cate Blanchard :

But these things we don't like them

Gordon Hall :

Love a bit of quinoa!

Cate Blanchard :

No, it's good for you but come on absolutely mad who would sit there and be like, Oh, I'd like a nice bit of quinoa. That'll be really lovely. I'm so, so hungry. Maybe I should eat this little bit of rice. That'll be nice.

Gordon Hall :

You know what? I'm going to make some quinoa after this episode.

Joe Pearson :

I bet you've got a big bag of quinoa.

Gordon Hall :

I have. I've got a big bag of quinoa.

Cate Blanchard :

Why does it sound and won't go into that

Gordon Hall :

My quinoa brings all the boys to the yard.

Cate Blanchard :

I don't think I've ever been more...

Gordon Hall :

Better than Yours..

Cate Blanchard :

interesting sick in my mouth right now. Have you? Good job I don't drink, because I've spotted out. I'm joking. Yeah, I can come. I mean, how do you? I'm interested to Yeah, okay. Naturally Cate Blanchard shifts the conversation because Asking questions. Why wouldn't I because I've just read to myself in the third person, which is slightly Stephen Burke coffee and weird. I think that, you know, what do you guys feel if you didn't know me? So Joe, I mean, Gordon, we've got to know each other a little bit better on throughout this lockdown period just sharing different bits and pieces and information. But

Gordon Hall :

yeah, lost in fields in

Cate Blanchard :

I love the way you told that story it was actually a lot more perilous than you made it out. I was Yeah, worried. Joe, you've seen me out and about a bit of work was he for a couple of years mate and like, you know, how does it how do you see this because you've seen that side of me, obviously. And now you know me like this. And you know that I'm having a conversation with you. And this is me, and it's it's not had any kind of alcohol basis this is just me talking. Is it surprised here?

Joe Pearson :

Not at all. No, because the lack of confidence that you would get from alcohol, if you can show that with alcohol, you can do that in your everyday life. And you can apply it if you do it the right way. And clearly you have, I think the reason is you've kind of swapped an addiction, you swap an addiction to alcohol and kind of put painting in that place. So actually, not that much has changed. But you kind of get the Cate that's got the confidence and the kind of same kind of mannerisms that you would have when you're drinking, but you just have the painting, and that keeps you going every day. And actually, it means you're more consistent as well, I think. And clearly, that creative outlet is so important.

Cate Blanchard :

I mean, I've not had anything that's happened yet that's really, really affected me. And to the extent of you know, I was referring to put it in a box and attempting to take it on. And I mean, if that were to happen, I'd hope that it wouldn't be something I turned to in any way. There's been a couple of times. I mean, first of all, let's let's not be You know, I haven't done this myself. There's been a hell of a lot of people that I've learnt on. And there's a couple of like really special people out there that I've texted and gone. What I'm, what do I do? I'm going to do it. And those people have either, you know, phoned or come around and assisted in that way. And it's a lot of support in that way. You know, no person could just turn around and go, I feel like stopping drinking today. So I'll do it. Oh, you must have a very, you know, increased knowledge of self to do that. But I think I think it's been out there, you know, it's what it's what I am right now. And it would take, I feel like it's not something I'd like to return to. And I feel like it reminds me a bit of antidepressants because antidepressants are given to you and the idea is for you to come off them. No one wants you to be on antidepressants for the rest of your life. And it's the same thing that they marked it in the same in the same way with hinge that day. app. You know Vito has been introducing me to a lot of dating apps at the moment. And hinge says the app that's designed to be deleted. So you use it until you don't need to use it anymore.

Joe Pearson :

And marketing strategy actually,

Cate Blanchard :

you know, I really believe I've marketed myself using that strategy, so I used it until I didn't need it anymore. What do I need though? Hmm. Is the next stage that I'm going into my life? It's quite a beautiful ending, almost.

Gordon Hall :

Yeah. I mean, we've been recording for about an hour and 15 minutes now.

Cate Blanchard :

Talk.

Gordon Hall :

No, that's, that's absolutely fine. I'm sure some of that will be brought down with the Edit anyway. Don't worry. I really

Cate Blanchard :

really enjoyed it. It was quite good. Yeah, in a weird way. I think I'm a posh bitch when I start talking, which is really annoying.

Gordon Hall :

I mean, we spoke about all Most nothing, none of the stuff that we plan to talk about which is exactly what we wanted to happen, I think yeah. I mean, I had props. I was gonna like ask you to talk about how you felt when you painted them I had like all kinds of stuff up my sleeve to pull out if the conversation started getting awkward but it was great.

Cate Blanchard :

Well, why don't you have me back on next year and check back in with me right all my great work that's been happening since you last spoke to me after your array of magical guests which I'm sure they're going to be and then you can check it again and see how my new exhibition is going. And and you know why he asked me to take over the Saatchi gallery and the story behind that.

Gordon Hall :

Well, we look forward to that story. Thank you very much.

Cate Blanchard :

It's been great and guys, like literally Can I just say as a listener, not only protocol human mates, but You know, particularly last year last year, last episode, you really tackle some interesting issues. I think you have a lovely way of speaking to each other about it. And thank you.

Gordon Hall :

It just for the listeners. That's the Black Lives Matter episode. We're recording this slightly, but

Cate Blanchard :

I put a link in my Instagram bio about it today. Please, some followers can check that out and stuff. Be sure to

Joe Pearson :

like we did it. I had to kind of Dr. Gordon because Gordon's like we can't we're two white men. You know, it's Yeah, and it sound good. I was like we need to do it. If we don't, this is exactly how some of these funds can come about by putting it away and ignoring it. We need to hear about it. I'm glad we did. And we've got another episode lined up on point

Cate Blanchard :

I should I should probably say as well. You know the important stuff if anyone feels like they feel like they have a problem or would like to explore anything that you know GP is the first port of call talk about it with them and if anyone is in distress, they can can admit themselves into a hospital and, and say, I'm having feelings of suicidal thoughts. I'd like to be there and stay there if it has got to that stage with anyone, which I hope no one gets to, and no one looks and sees that that happens and themselves. You know, Alcoholics Anonymous wasn't my journey, but it is a very helpful programme that they do when people can find support in others. And there's loads of information on the NHS website about anything to do with a different dependency on different substances. And my website is sober painter calm Find me on there.

Gordon Hall :

Thank you very much. How can we find you on social media as well?

Cate Blanchard :

and Instagram, the sober painter? Yeah. Everything's just really the sober painter. Just, you know, maybe I just, I don't know what it has done. If it would be like the elephant painter. That would have been harder because I'd have to get into elephants, but it all sort of seems like I'm a massive believer. In the universe and balancing, it seems like to all balance at the same time. So that's what I'm learning to do.

Gordon Hall :

Fantastic.

Cate Blanchard :

She's very much, boys. It's been a pleasure.

Gordon Hall :

Yeah, it's been a pleasure. Thank you for your time. Thank you.

Cate Blanchard :

I look forward to seeing you at distance as soon as possible soon. Indeed.

Gordon Hall :

Yes. Bye. Bye. So that was our chat with Cate Blanchard, the sober painter. What an incredible chat, Joe. I mean, for our first guest, we've set the bar pretty high.

Joe Pearson :

Yeah, it was a really good chat. And I think, given the fact that she's never properly taught us about that with someone you open like this. I think she was incredibly articulate and so many different bits of advice and learns that people can pick up along the way and some pretty funny stories as well.

Gordon Hall :

Absolutely, yeah. And if you want to check it out, Her work like Cate said, please do check out the sober painter on all of the social medias or the cyber painter calm. And I definitely recommend getting some of her art because it is pretty damn dude.

Joe Pearson :

Yeah, if you want to visualise some of the things she's talking about, because she puts all over emotion, and all of this passion that you can hear in her voice into our art. So if you want to visualise it have a little look in the show notes beneath this podcast. Yeah, all kinds of links on there. So go and support her as well. Absolutely.

Gordon Hall :

And But what have we got going on next week, Joe?

Joe Pearson :

So next week, we have someone from the US and a, it's an American man coming on. And that's all we're going to tell you for now. A very interesting individual. And they've got their fingers in a couple of different pies, all of which you'll be interested in. Sounds really intriguing, Joe, I'm intrigued to find out who that is. I'm sure everyone is we'll put a couple of teasers out maybe just before we react episode. And Brady will be another pretty good chap

Gordon Hall :

or fantastic Well Other than that, I guess all that's left to say is thank you to everyone that's been rating and been reviewing on iTunes and all of the other places that you can go so iTunes anymore is it Joe supports Apple podcasts or something. Suddenly via iTunes is gone, but not gone. Well, there we go. Well, thank you everyone who's been sending in the reviews on Apple podcasts. We do read every single one of them. And yeah, we'd love to hear more. If you're enjoying the show, do let us know. It wants to know cockles on his heart. He does. Yes indeed. Other than that, all that's left to say is thank you for listening. And we'll see you probably next week.

Joe Pearson :

See you then Bye Bye.

Gordon Hall :

Bye.

Joe Pearson :

massive thank you again to Haley with a fantastic logo that's plastered everywhere Liminal podcast wise on the internet. Harry fantastic soundtracks, we might maybe call him up at some point again, maybe get some different little music snippets dropped in here and there, and Leah for some fantastic social media work. And most of all, thank you to the listener, keep listenening away and reviewing us. See you next week.