Liminal Podcast

Growing Up Without A Parent

July 13, 2020 Leah Ball, Gordon Hall and Joe Pearson Season 2 Episode 5
Liminal Podcast
Growing Up Without A Parent
Chapters
Liminal Podcast
Growing Up Without A Parent
Jul 13, 2020 Season 2 Episode 5
Leah Ball, Gordon Hall and Joe Pearson

This week Joe and Gordon are joined (in person!) by Leah, Liminal Podcast's producer and social media manager. She shares her story of growing up without a parent, how it unfolded, and how that’s impacted both her and her family's lives over the years.

Show Notes

Leah's Instagram
Leah's Final Year Film

Liminal Podcast is about dealing with change, be that through humour, self-care, science, or spirituality. Join Joe and Gordon as they laugh and ponder, as well as speak to experts and friends, trying to figure out how to deal with life when the rug has been pulled from under your feet.

We’d love to hear from you! If you want to get in touch click here.

Liminal Podcast couldn’t happen without the support of our team, as always massive thank you to Harry for writing the theme music, Haley for creating our logo and Leah for everything she does behind the scenes. Thank you to everyone who rates and reviews the show, we really appreciate it.

Subscribe to Liminal Podcast

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Follow us on social media

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Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/theliminalpod)

Show Notes Transcript

This week Joe and Gordon are joined (in person!) by Leah, Liminal Podcast's producer and social media manager. She shares her story of growing up without a parent, how it unfolded, and how that’s impacted both her and her family's lives over the years.

Show Notes

Leah's Instagram
Leah's Final Year Film

Liminal Podcast is about dealing with change, be that through humour, self-care, science, or spirituality. Join Joe and Gordon as they laugh and ponder, as well as speak to experts and friends, trying to figure out how to deal with life when the rug has been pulled from under your feet.

We’d love to hear from you! If you want to get in touch click here.

Liminal Podcast couldn’t happen without the support of our team, as always massive thank you to Harry for writing the theme music, Haley for creating our logo and Leah for everything she does behind the scenes. Thank you to everyone who rates and reviews the show, we really appreciate it.

Subscribe to Liminal Podcast

Apple Podcasts
YouTube
Spotify
Stitcher

Follow us on social media

Facebook
Instagram
Twitter
TikTok

Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/theliminalpod)

Gordon Hall :

Welcome back to Liminal podcast that talks about dealing with change. My name is Gordon.

Joe Pearson :

My name is Joe, are you okay? We're not far away from each other. And I mean that literally.

Gordon Hall :

Yes, we are actually in the same room everybody I could reach out and talk to anymore. It's been fun. We're in the same room. It's amazing.

Joe Pearson :

It was weird. We've kind of made this weird home setup Gordon is the official term is audio file. Not to be confused or files. He's got wires stands where things I've never seen before like a kind of suitcase looking thing the laser lights on. He explained it all to me. I forgot it all. But basically, that's why it sounds crisp. Exactly.

Gordon Hall :

Yes, we are in the same room we're recording in person and we've got a guest in the room as well. Joe We got on the show today. So we're not Yes. Towns or nothing. So we're gonna have on laser but it's not callin this week. We got this week Joe.

Joe Pearson :

So we're not combining free households. I don't think that's allowed. Currently. We're combining two now. This is my nearest and dearest Leah, you probably heard her name at the back end of the show. She's just producing and social media stuff for is this my girlfriend. Now she has a pretty big change talk about. So Leah runs all of our social media. She's actually helped me to download and create a Twitter account and I sent my first tweet the other day, the right word. Not sure not sure what I actually went back in. Absolutely.

Gordon Hall :

Well, she's she's coming on in a couple of minutes. So I'd love to introduce you to the incredible label. So Leah, Hey, hello. So, do you want to maybe Introduce yourself so the listeners know who you are? Why is that you're chatting to myself and Joe today how you know us maybe God,

Joe Pearson :

easiest way is my girlfriend. I've been mentioned previously, I'll allow her

Gordon Hall :

to say that I did. Do you speak for her?

Joe Pearson :

It's not one of those, you know, there's not one of those relationships in any way she speaks to me. Okay, well, so here she is.

Leah Ball :

Yeah. So I am unfortunately Joe's girlfriend. I do also help Joe and Gordon produce, so their social media, things like that. And I'm just kind of here to talk about the changes that I experienced when I was younger of not having my mom in my life.

Joe Pearson :

Yeah, so obviously I know a lot of this story to Gordon. He knows bits and pieces of this. Ah, you obviously knows the gist of what happened. But I think it's very important to discuss certain aspects of it and how it affected the sister, the whole family environment and growing up. It's such an important time, life and everyone's life is childhood, and especially teenage years. I mean, how did it start? It's probably the easiest way to explain to people, how old were you? What was the situation then kind of unfolded at the time?

Leah Ball :

Yeah, I mean, it's not really a story that like, me and my family openly tell everyone. It's not something that everyone around us knows. It's more of a thing that we just mentioned, if it comes up, which sometimes it does often when they're like, Oh, so did you spend Christmas with your mom and dad? I'm like, Oh, yeah, my dad and my stepmom. I don't ever refer to my mom in anything that I speak about. But that's because I've not seen her since I was 10. And so as we were growing up, she was quite an abusive Women, I will put it that way. I'm very controlling physically mentally. And she was always with my dad up until then never been kind of separate. They were always together for the entire time that me and my sister had been born. But my dad decided to leave at one point and kind of just explained that he wasn't really happy hadn't been for a while, but he didn't want to leave until my sister and I were old enough to kind of understand what was going on. And it all kind of kicked off from there really. My mom attacked my dad in the middle of the night. And I woke up, came down and saw it happening had to call the police on my own mom, which as a 10 year old is not always the most pleasant thing, not something you would ever expect to do. And very violent. My dad ended up with a broken nose and he all his clothes were ripped. You could see all his skin and all the skin was bleeding. There was a really a part of him that wasn't covered in blood. And I kind of just heard at hid sorry, behind our sofa in a cupboard and on the phone to this lovely police woman can't falter. She was amazing. And kind of just explaining and she actually could hear my dad screaming for help in the background. And so at that point, the police literally came within a couple of minutes. They were amazing from what I can remember, but obviously I'm very young at this point. And they can't take my mom away. And it's just me my sister, my dad, my sister somehow magically slept through the entire thing. That's Yeah. So obviously I'm very distressed My poor dad is like injured left right and centre, but he was amazing. Like he never put a hand on my mom. He would just kind of let her attack him basically try to get away as best as he could until the police arrived and that my dad cleaned himself. I got checked over by the police and he wasn't in any kind of massively detrimental like injury. He didn't need to go to hospital. And so me and Chloe kind of went back to bed. My dad went to bed we got up the next morning for school had to still go in. And then I get a phone call. Halfway through. It was one of my it lessons actually because I can remember my it teacher kind of kicking off at me for being on my phone. I was like, crying my eyes out. My mom's calling me I need to go she's been arrested. Like, they were like, Oh, right, not really knowing what to do. I have you teacher wooden. So, like, left the scores in the hallway. My mom's calling me from like the police station saying that she's coming home. And which obviously is a big surprise. We weren't expecting that. And she came home and my dad was like, right, well, I'm leaving you guys. It's completely up to you. You can stay here or you can Come with me. And obviously no change of thought me and my sister packed as much as we could carry that we thought was important at the time, which pretty much consisted of pillows and teddy bears and stuff like that. Yeah. And kind of just got in the car and left. Yeah. And we pretty much just moved about 10 minutes down the road. And that was in a kind of upside down house for a lady that my dad worked with owned at the time, but was renting out such that we could stay there for as long as we needed. And, and we were there for probably about a month or two before she needed it back. And but yeah, and then that kind of kick started a few years of legal action and complications.

Gordon Hall :

That's quite a lot. I just want to kind of acknowledge that for the people listening as well, that, I guess, sounds like quite a traumatic thing to go through. So you were 10 when you last saw your mom, you say

Leah Ball :

Yeah, pretty much 10 or 11. So it will we officially like left and didn't see properly in like October, which is just after my 10th birthday. And I was just kind of entering secondary school and my sister was in our last year of primary school. And it kind of carried on, on and off seen her for a few, like months or so whilst they were fighting for custody. So it started off as off custody. So we were seeing each parent equal amounts me and my sister didn't have a choice in that because we're under 18. And then that led to even more complications of my mom not actually letting me and my sister leave so she would lock us in the house when my dad came to pick us up and obviously it was quite biassed back then in terms of the legal system with the mother and the father. So because my mother was the one that gave birth to us, she technically in the eyes of the law had more of a ride over us or when she didn't last leave. And my dad called the police to say it's my turn. The police weren't Well, there's nothing I can do. If she's not handing them over. You can't see them today. So that then meant that it got changed. So we then have specific set dates, and then it could have led, I'm pretty sure to If my mom didn't let us see, to have been arrested and things like that to make it a little bit easier for my dad to actually get access. And then eventually, about a year down the line, my dad finally got full custody and we never saw her again.

Gordon Hall :

Wow. Holy.

Joe Pearson :

It's crazy that it was kind of the mother's choice, even given the scenario and what happened because obviously there's a police report of what happened. Police have seen what happened. It's crazy that this still when a call is the mother's decision. You know, she doesn't want to give up her kids that she's got birth to physical I said, you know, he can't see you is crazy to me. That's the case. I'm imagining it. Maybe it's better now, but I really don't know. Law seems to change a bit slower than society. Yeah.

Leah Ball :

I mean, yeah, I wouldn't know. It wasn't a case that my mom was trying to keep us because she didn't want to allow us go. It was because of the benefits she could get from me and my sister. So her like absolute last words to me when I last saw her was, I only wanted you for the child money, you know, used to me. And that was it. She wasn't trying to keep hold of us for love or anything like that. She was very abusive. She knew that once my dad had left, that she would get child benefits if she had the full custody and that would mean money for her. I don't think she ever had any intentions of being a loving mother or anything like that. When we had the final loss to go through of right. My dad has full custody. My mom was given the right to contact us via post up until we were 18. So she allowed to write us letters, send us cards whenever she wanted in the eyes of the law, she was given our address everything like that. And as soon as we left We never heard from her again. We never got a Christmas card, a birthday card, anything. And then the law stated once we turned 18 she was then allowed to see us if we wanted to It was then completely down to us. And same again once we turned 18 never had anything we've never received any contact. It was as if she vanished off the face of the earth.

Gordon Hall :

Wow. I mean, do you? Do you know of what she's up to? Like? Do you know she's still around? Do you know where she is? or anything? Are you completely in the dark?

Leah Ball :

Yeah, bits and bobs. So it's a bit odd, really. So her whole side of the family we don't see at all so me and my sister don't see all of our cousins, aunties, uncles, everything like that. My mom had a very big family like her side was quite big. She was one of four siblings, I think and everyone had at least Two kids, most of them have three and an every single year without fail. I received a birthday message on Facebook from one of my aunts or uncles, they alternate each year for some unknown reason. And they always message same thing every single year. Happy birthday, hope you're well. And we never know what has happened. We don't speak to your mom anymore. But we'd love to still have contact with you. And we'd love to see you but me and my sister know full well that they both do know what happened. They were at the court cases they were with her in support was my dad was there they know all of the information. And we know that some of them are still in contact with my mom, and which we've got from other people that know her and from her mom and dad that have messaged my dad in previous years. So we're fully aware. We know that she's still live in, in and around the town I grew up we know that she still works at the supermarket that she always did, and that she's worked her way up. And that's pretty much just come from everyone that was in that small town that I grew up with. Everyone kind of knew everyone, everyone knows what they do where they go. And obviously, where I went to school in that town and still have contact with people in that town. We do get updates from them every now and then not that we really care. But people still feel the need to give us that update.

Joe Pearson :

Yeah, because it's your mom and they know who isn't there you are there like it is weird. I mean, obviously I have a very similar thing in my family, which I don't know if I can really discuss but it's someone a section of the family. That's just nothing. They've decided not to contacts and that's it. That's completely it. And it's a weird concept because you spend some of your most tender years of growing up with these people. And now, there is like a stranger in the street. It's a really alien thing to get your head around that. They will want your nearest and dearest And now they are nothing but memories of yester years. It is hard one it's really hard one.

Leah Ball :

Yeah, I mean, it's similar, I guess, but I don't actually have any fun happy memories of my mom like it was never a good relationship. She was very abusive. And she was abusive to me, my sister in different ways. I got a lot of the physical aspects of my sister got a lot of the mental aspects. So I took part in a lot of sports and gymnastics, things like that. I was on all my school sports teams, that gymnastics was probably my biggest thing that was, I was in the squad. I've been in there ever since I could pretty much walk. I was fairly good at it had lots of competition, medals, trophies, and it was kind of a community for my mom as well. So she would come to every training session with all the other mums she would come to every competition. She was always there. But it was very much a case of right. This is a competition that you've got today. If you don't get a medal, you don't place in the top three, you're getting a smack. And you're not going to get a say something that you really liked for dinner that night. Or if I then don't even place in the top five and get at least one of the rosettes. That's it, I'm getting something for dinner that I absolutely despise, that makes me feel sick. And she would openly smack me in front of like, who I was competing with. I remember very clearly up one of my gymnastics training. We were sat in our change room, all the girls, we were just having a little bit of a gossip before our training session started at six. And one of the girls was like, oh, let's turn the lights off and all hide in different places. And then someone has to find us. And I was like, Oh, no, I don't want to join in because I knew that my mom was outside. I knew she would catch on and I knew I would get in trouble. So I just sat on the bench and sat there still and was like, Oh yeah, I'll just switch the light off for you guys. Let me know when my mom heard the lights. going on, and I've heard everyone screaming and giggling, she came in screaming at me pulled me out of the change room by my arm. And between the changing room door and the other door that then led you into the section where you could go and train was kind of like a little box. And she just outright smacked me so hard around the back. And it made a massive slap noise. And I was so in like, I was in so much pain there wasn't there's no really way to describe it a slap on your back with so much force is probably one of the most painful things. And I was like as well. Yeah, I was. Oh, it was before we left as well. I was probably about eight or nine then. And I was trying so hard not to cry. I was like, I can't let everyone that I'm with no. And I went back in and all the girls are sat there and absolute shock almost like Did your mom just hit you? And I was like, Oh, no, no, don't be silly. She just hit the wall. She was just angry at me. But I explained that it wasn't me and it's absolutely fine. Don't worry, and they will Oh, right. Okay, okay. I just had to sit there and get on with the rest of the session and just pretend that my mom has outright smacked me around the back in front of everyone that I knew for. Absolutely nothing. I haven't done anything wrong. But it was because I could have potentially have made myself not perform as well in that training session that night, because we had been mucking about that was our logic.

Joe Pearson :

Yeah, and in both these before and after you were trying to actually make it better. You try to make it better so that you would get less punishment. You knew that if you did say was your mom, you get punished when you get home? Why did you tell them? Why did you get me in trouble? You know, you try to behave on the inside again, not to get in trouble. And regardless of that, she did it. Yeah, that's completely abusive.

Leah Ball :

Yeah. And the thing was is like me, my sister didn't know any different so yes, my sister will also get it. Hit quite often, but I feel like my sister was far more affected by the mental aspects. I mean everyone in my family even Chloe will admit she isn't as academic as I am. I'm more academic Chloe's more hands on, and she always has been and growing up in school, she found a lot of like things harder, especially in primary school. And my mum just couldn't grasp that Chloe found it more difficult. She wasn't in top sets. And it wasn't that she wasn't bright. It just took her longer to understand. My mom could not grasp it and she would just be so mentally abusive calling her name's telling her that she was thick constantly. Chloe grew up all the way through even into secondary school once we had left when she couldn't get something right or didn't get a top grade or something like that. She was like, Well, I'm just there, can I? Because that's what my mom always used to tell her. She was stupid. She was incapable she would never practice Chloe's reading with her because she was like, Well, she's just sick. She won't get it. She can't, she just won't read properly. So my dad would have to spend extra time with her and things like that. If Chloe then misspelt something wrong on a spelling test, it was as if the whole world ended. And all she would get is harsh names at her like, there was there's no way to explain the amount of mental abuse that she took at that age. It was not healthy. And yeah, she would get the physical attacks every now and then just like I would get the mental abuse every now and then. But we both were on the polar opposite of the spectrum of the abuse that we both got. How how much younger is she than you? Chloe is only a year younger. So she's, we Well, we're not even a full year apart. We actually spent six days the same age as each other. And just because I was a late baby and Chloe was early, we had a bit of a crossover. But yeah, she's only a year younger. So it wasn't a massive difference. We were very close in age. Very good. In terms of where what we had to learn, go through school and Chloe would pretty much take the exact same thing that I was taking the following year there would be no gaps or differences in changing of curriculum or anything like that.

Joe Pearson :

How do you think it affected your relationship with your sister and growing up in Emerald because they were teenage going into teenage years are probably the most important years in your life and to go through something like that? Did it affect both your schoolwork was a timeout or was it literally let's get our heads down? This is the thing that's going on and we'll just get on with it.

Leah Ball :

Um, well in school Yeah, we never got any timeout or anything like that. It was pretty much a case of we went in the school was made aware by the police and I was told to go and speak to our school counsellor as the oldest to give them a bit more of a in depth discussion about it for kind of our welfare and completely under the influence that okay, counselling is completely confidential. This is just for your welfare. And the police already know Child Services are already part of the scenario so it won't go any further. And but then the next day in school, all of our teachers knew half of my year half of close your new and within a week the whole school knew everything that was going on. And I would probably say that I got a lot of bullying from some of the kind of more popular people in my year and saying all sorts of names like that. My mom doesn't love me I'm gonna be an offer and all sorts of stuff. And I think Chloe just kind of in school because she was still at primary school when it kind of first started before she came to secondary school. It wasn't a big, big thing because they're quite young, but once she got into secondary school, especially being my sister, and it carrying on with custody and things like that, was a thing that everybody knew people would come up to us and be like, oh, have you seen your mom again yet? Or are your mom does she still not love you or she taken you back? And the teachers kind of knew everything they would every now and then try and bring it up to have a conversation, which obviously, in my opinion, wasn't very professional. I didn't really want to sit halfway through my math lesson and be like, Oh, yeah, I'm still hassling my mom. And my dad, the police is still involved. Like, you don't want to have that conversation with the teachers. And, but I mean, they tried their best as a school. It's not a normal situation. We would have the police come into school every now and then because my mom was it was written on like, our kind of information sheet If my mom came into school to take us not to let her on the premises. And because she wasn't allowed just to whisk us away. That was welfare reasons just in case you tried to take us somewhere without permission without the law knowing and by The school didn't always kind of abide by that there was a few times where my mom managed to get into the premises. And police did have to come and like, speak to the teachers how she managed to just take the kids out. And but other than that, it was kind of just get on with your score, try your best, let's hope it doesn't affect you

Joe Pearson :

use it as a distraction and as a tool rather than bring it into here as well, in many ways. Yeah, I think a lot of people listening who have had that strong parents are all appreciating that they didn't have this kind of drama, which is what is happening, you know, with their mom and dad. It's something that you'd hear on like Wally road or something like that. And until you experience or hear about it, you get that these are actual things that can happen. You know, it's incredibly emotional journey to go on as a child, I'm assuming.

Gordon Hall :

Yeah, I guess my question would be at what point did you realise that this wasn't normal, and what you have Going through was like not what other people were going through.

Leah Ball :

I think, pretty much. I was quite switched on as a kid, I would say I was very aware. And I think that's why my dad came to me at the age that I was I was like, I think you're capable of knowing that I'm not leaving because of you. You guys have a choice. It's completely up to you when he did. And, and as soon as I saw my mom attacked my dad, I knew this is not okay. This is not normal. And that's why I was very quick to call the police. Like, my dad was screaming at me down the stairs. Leah helped me call the police I need you. Like, can you just do something for me? And I think for most 10 year olds, you like calling the police is not something that you're aware of. I was never taught about calling the police in school or anything like that. But I was able to do it and I was very switched on and a lot of my friends around me were in kind of very typical, how Households they had their mom and dad together their mom and dad were both married and my parents weren't married they so when they separated, it wasn't a case of getting divorced. And, and everyone around me were like, Oh, my mom never hit me and our my, my mom doesn't chat with me like that and things. So we were very aware that it wasn't normal. But it was a case of me and my sister didn't know any different. So before my dad left and we went with him, when it came to the abuse, we kind of just got on with it and hit it as best as we could. And to be fair, like my mom's mom, so technically my nan not that we see arrow colour anymore. And she was very much if you do something wrong, you get punished and their version of what is wrong is quite stretched. It's not something serious. It can be very minor, like, Oh, you've not put your pencils back in your pencil case, and it's left a tiny bit of a mess on the table. You've not cleaned that up within an hour of you using it right? That's it, you're gonna get smacked. It's not a case of, right? This is wrong. I've asked you to clean that away, please, can you clean it away? This is the reason why I need to clean it away. For instance, we're gonna have dinner on that table in a minute. All sorts of things, just normal things of learning authority learning, right and wrong. We didn't get that it was very much anything that was little, you were punished, and we just kind of got on with it. And then when my dad left, and we were able to kind of get away, that's when it was like, right, we're not gonna stand for that. We know that it's not normal. We've known it's not normal. And that's why we're not gonna just run back to my mom, when Child Services spoke to us. We were both instantly like, this is what she does. We don't want to see me and my sister were very adamant about that for the entire court case that went on.

Joe Pearson :

You know that black and white is kids. It's clear they like because I'm sure there's probably a lot of kids who have Maybe similar ish scenario and they're a bit like, no or she just has a bad mood and she does this and she does that. If you know downright what she's doing, that's how extreme It must have been, and how much power she was outputting at certain times.

Leah Ball :

Yeah, she was definitely power hungry in terms of controlling me my sister. I mean, that was very obvious. She became a dinner lady at our primary school when I was still at primary. And just because then she would see us all day at school, and then all night at home. And everyone at my school knew her as district dinner lady. Nobody liked her. She was really nasty. She did it in front of me and my sister, she would shout, she would tell us off tiny little things in front of all of our classmates or friends embarrass us on the daily and then we would go back home and she was there again. And then we'd have dinners that we went live on purpose because she didn't like how we were playing on the playground at school that day, and also So she was definitely wanting to control every single aspect of minor my sister's life. And so I think, once we, like turned around and said, No, we don't want to see you anymore. Like, this is not normal. This is not okay, this is not love. And she kind of saw that as an opportunity of, actually. I can have them but I can have them for money. I'm not fussed about controlling them anymore. Let me just have the custody because I'll get child benefits until they're 18.

Joe Pearson :

And see children's assets, which is completely an emotional, you know, you give birth to these children, that is a part of you. That is more of a partner than anything, even there's some aspects of yourself, your person unless you've made that as your child, or half of you anyway, it's incredible to me that people could even get to that point. You know, did you reckon it made you and your sister grow up faster, because suddenly you dealt with this very adult kind of situation that a child shouldn't really be exposed to. But obviously it happened.

Leah Ball :

And I would say, me personally, yes, I grew up very quickly. And I would still say now, I act in most day to day things a lot older than I am. When people find out that I'm only 21 people kind of look at me every bit in the shark. Like I'm very regimented in things. I know how to finance very well, this kind of age because, well, I learned all of that from my dad because my dad had to struggle with finances, unfortunately, because of all of it. So when he was going to call my mum didn't pay a single penny in legal fees because like she got help from it. She was the mother that it cost my dad thousands and thousands of pounds. And the only way that my dad actually won and was able to finish it was by turning around and going right. You have the house and it was my dad's house. He paid for all of it. It was Completely, my mom didn't really put a penny to it at all that he said, If I give you the full house, everything like that, just let me have girls, they're the most important. I just want custody of them. I don't want anything else. And my mom got all the assets from that everything. She made a lot of money. And I think and then anything that my dad was able to get it then went towards their legal fees, and my dad was in debt for quite a long time of that. So learning to finance and take care of your money I learned from my dad just from day to day little things. And I don't even know if he realised how much of the influence he had on me on terms of financing, but I definitely would say that I don't have any money issues because I've learned everything from how he dealt with that debt.

Joe Pearson :

Yeah, and you've helped me personally with financial stuff. I've not. I've been in, you know, for university, the most troubling financial period I've never seen someone so settled during Financial Times. Even With some pretty bad setbacks that you've had, you know, and that must come from those early ages, you've just learned to call. That's how it that's how we have to do it, because it's stretched. These are the things that are going to have to instal in everyday life. Because if it goes wrong, and I've seen it, it can go wrong. This is how we set up and prepare for things to go wrong.

Leah Ball :

Yeah, and I mean, we also had to move away so luckily, my dad met like an amazing woman who's now my stepmom and Lucy who actually had a house that she bought in the area that we now live in. And, and it was a completely rundown grotty little cottage like, it needed to be completely redone. And she had bought that as like a project for ourselves. And that when we then had to move out of the temporary house that we were in, and she was like, right, let's just get in there. And she let us go in. And we were sleeping on like with, like, kind of rubber and word or spam. materials around us. And my dad and Lucy absolutely changed this house like it was incredible. They completely turned it around. And, and well, yeah, she's now my stepmom. She's had a massive influence on me. I was very lucky to find her. So was my dad really she also unfortunately couldn't have children. And so the fact that then she took me and my sister on is incredible because we're at an age where obviously were quite troublesome, especially with everything that was going on. And she took us under our arm like she had born like gave birth to us. She was incredible. She taught us how to cook. I mean, we knew bits and bobs, but I would not be able to make some of the meals that I can do now without her guiding me along. And she's always supported me in everything I do. She's helped me with you know, the normal girly stuff that you usually learn from your mom, which I didn't have I didn't have her around and she gave us all the tools Without ever trying to intrude and without ever trying to replace our mom. And that's why we don't call Lucy our mom, even though she pretty much raised us throughout all the important years. She's still there now for everything that we do. But we don't call Lucy mom because she isn't. Our mum is our mom. And even though we don't see it, you can't replace it, but you can definitely do a better job than her. And that's what this is done.

Joe Pearson :

The title isn't important. It's more What? What is the role? She's been the role of the mom, but she doesn't need to be called the mom. That's fine. I actually think that's a harder thing than being a biological mother in many ways to take on someone else's kids, especially in maybe difficult circumstances is incredible to have that compassion and understanding and she must have had that kind of attitude to go. They probably won't like me for a little bit. They're probably not gonna like me for a little bit because I'm coming in and I might step on people's toes but to be able to do that and do it well is pretty impressive or

Leah Ball :

Yeah, I mean, I would say me and Claire we struggled for a little bit every now and then of certain aspects with Lucy and coming to terms with oh hang on we don't have a mom but now this woman has come into our life but even through all of those struggles Lucy never turned her back on our she was incredible. And we still say it now and she tells everyone that where has she goes yet my girls, my girls to everyone she's so loving and she's so proud of us which is incredible because she didn't raise us when we were tiny. She didn't see like our first steps or anything like that. But she saw all the important things like the first heartbreak Yeah, GCSEs A Levels me now graduating uni. All the big, big milestones that usually you celebrate with your mom, but I've had Lucy there and she is the most proudest woman of me and my sister. She posts us on social media. She tells all our friends strange She's like, yeah, these are our these are mines like, and the fact that as well she looks very similar to me, like, if you pass side by side, you would genuinely think she was my biological mother. I look more like her than I do my mom, which is absolutely crazy, mom. It's great. And she absolutely adores the fact that everybody goes, Oh, you look cool, far too young to have a 20 and 21 year old and she's like, I know, but I do and she loves it. She brags about us more than my dad, like way more. And it's incredible to see because it must have been so hard to find out at a similar time that she was kind of taken us on that she couldn't have children of our own and still be so loving and stepped in is something that I'm not sure most women or well anyone could do. You could turn really sour in that moment. If you'd like to know what the world hates So I'm going to hate it.

Joe Pearson :

But you went the other way. enjoyment. Okay, cool. How am I gonna make the most of this? And, and she did.

Leah Ball :

Yeah, got a whole new family like her whole entire side of her family. They all know about us. We know all about them. Like Lisa's mom and dad, Jackie and Mike are absolutely incredible. Definitely a better replacement for the nun and granddad figures. And Jackie makes the most incredible cakes and sausage rolls and rolls off. She knows it. And she absolutely adores it. Every time I go around, she's got some sausage rolls and next slice of cake for me without fail. And they genuinely treat me and my sister like absolute goals. They're incredible. I would never fault them. And we continue to thank them for everything that they did, because they did not need to take me and my sister on at that time. We were probably at such a low point. It's such a complicated point that she took us on she took my dad on with all his death and now We're probably one of the happiest loving little families.

Gordon Hall :

That's amazing. And that you've come this far and that you've managed to create, like you said, a loving family out of something that sounds like it was almost the opposite of that. But the stop the how the opposite. Yeah. How has this affected your relationships with other people in your life if at all?

Leah Ball :

I mean, I think it made me resent a lot of women. I will say, I found it very difficult to trust women, especially because that was my mom. She was the main figure in my life as a woman. But then also that counsellor that went and told everyone at school was a woman and our main head teacher was a woman and everything kind of went in school. Everybody knew I was being teased and it was mostly the girls that Actually were picking on me for. So I built up a lot of resentment for women. And I probably would say, obviously, I can't speak on behalf of curry. But I would say she probably did the same thing because we also went through quite a period of resenting each other because we couldn't fully understand what each other had experienced because it was different to each other. So we were trying to both come to terms with it, try to come to terms with the change of having a moment leave our life and another coming in, but then also the women in our school that were supposed to protect us and look after us also make mistakes and tell people what was going on that was confidential. That growing up, I didn't trust women for a very long time. It took me such a while to get out of that. And I'd say even still today, I struggle with it. I it kind of, I would say takes me quite a while to open up to women compared to me. Men, I have a lot of men that are closer friends to me than I do women I have a very select few I would probably say, I have about four women in my life, friends that I would openly talk to and tell everything to everyone else as much as I love them around me. They're only getting a small snippet of my life. They're not getting my details doesn't matter how long I've known you how close I am. I don't have that full trust in women. But I do in men because my dad was our Saviour. He was me and my co pilot like me and my sister away, and we were able to get out of such a bad situation. He managed to find Lucy and make her his wife and kind of build that happy family. My dad did everything he could he sacrificed so much for himself to make sure me and Chloe were okay that we didn't want for anything, even though we were in a tough situation. And that, I find it a lot easier to connect to men than women.

Joe Pearson :

Yeah, because the biggest authorities in your life, your mom and the people at your school, because that's most of your life let you down, they let you down and they were handling incredibly sensitive information or being abusive. And they, they were at fault. They made mistakes. And yeah, we are products of our environment is good. It's going to happen, unfortunately. And then the last thing you want is history to repeat yourself. So you cover your back, you cover your back and you keep your cards close to your chest than you did before.

Leah Ball :

Yeah, and I mean, I'd also say in a bit of a flip to that, that I'm far more confrontational with women because I had to stand up to my mom and go through all of that if a woman does something wrong to me or upsets me, she will know about it. Like I will confront her. I will tell her, this is what you've done. You've affected me You're making me feel this way and that's not okay. whereas men, I would say, I'm a bit more lenient, I'm a bit more like, oh, let's, let's see if it was a one off. Let's see if it's, there's a change. And it probably, I'd let it go a fair few times before I confronted you about it. Because, like you said, My dad was the authority figure. And he looked after us. And I didn't ever go against what my dad said, because I knew everything that he was actually doing was, for my benefit. He had my best interests at heart. So I wouldn't go against it unless it was something that I absolutely did not agree with me. I've gone on a few times. And sacrifice

Joe Pearson :

is the biggest thing if someone's willing to sacrifice sacrifice parts of their life, particularly money in particular assets, things you've worked so hard for. Nothing hold higher value than that and time of course, as well. To sit down with you and explain something incredibly difficult. That's true Parenthood, you know, and the woman in your life didn't do that she did the opposite. She went away. She looked at you as an asset and then a not as a person, which you are, you know.

Gordon Hall :

Yeah, I mean, do you have? Do you know, where the way that she was came from? Do you know what caused her to be the way that she was towards you?

Leah Ball :

Not really. I mean, her mom wasn't much better from what I can gather from what I knew as a young kid growing up and from things that my dad told me. I mean, she was very much a punishment type of woman. She was very strict and very kind of controlling, but I don't think she was ever on a level that my mom was and, and my mom had a few fallen outs with her own family. So she had two brothers and a sister. And she didn't speak to one of our brothers because they had had fallen out when they were younger and she had actually punched him in the face. And they never spoke again because he would not forgive that. And there was never a real explanation to that she was just always that kind of person. And who knows if that was because of any disabilities, mental health issues, there was no diagnosis that anybody knew of there was nothing there that could have gone. This is exactly why she's like that, because I don't really think it was taken out of the family kind of sphere, like nobody else really was aware of it. She didn't like acts that way in front of her personal friends. They kind of just knew I was a bit strict and would get angry every now and then. But it was never a case of she's abusive. And she was never reported by anybody else that I'm aware of. She was just that way inclined, which is really sad to say, and who knows she might still be that way. She may have got help. I have no idea. All I know is that she was with another Partner from what I found out from other people and that it was rumoured that she was thinking of having more kids, and which we thought was absolutely crazy. But yeah, who knows? We don't know anything about her anymore. But there was never ever anything that was written down to say, she is violent because of this.

Joe Pearson :

Hmm, wouldn't it if it happened today? Is this system? Would it react differently? Would they be like a mental health diagnosis? And would they be more in depth in depth looking at things like past history and stuff like that? I wouldn't, because obviously, it was maybe what, 10 1213 years ago? Quite a while ago. I would hope it is. I really don't know, though.

Gordon Hall :

Yeah, I agree with that.

Joe Pearson :

Yeah. I mean, I would hope so. I would hope they would look at mental health because yeah, I think 10 1520 years ago, it wasn't as much of a consideration. The audio is always people are the way they are because that's how they are. But what's actually true is is Often triggers and there's sometimes it can just happen. And it can be kind of a random string of events. But there's normally some kind of trigger or previous abuse that can start abuse again, if you go back far enough and you piece things together.

Leah Ball :

Yeah, I mean, her family was very disjointed. She rarely saw her dad, he was never a part of mine or my sister's life that I fully knew of. I could only say that I met him once. And when we was actually in between all of this custody, and we were taken to his house, and that was the only time we met him. I'd never seen him before that never saw him after. My mom didn't have the best relationship with him even from what my dad has told me from all his years being with her. And they were just a very disjointed, complicated family, and a lot of violence, a lot of anger, a lot of authority that was all just disjointed and came out in different ways. And unfortunately, me and my sister Got the backlash of that from my mom?

Joe Pearson :

Yeah, fill it down, essentially, really. And then I guess the thing that you've learned from this kind of liminal space is not to do that, and go the other way and go cool. I had a big turning point in my childhood. And I've come out of it really, really well. And we built an incredible farm off the back of you and your sister, whoever now surely does that again. And that's how you stop the cycle. Because you could go the other way you could go what she's hating, oh, my childhood was ruined. And I've got children now. And now I'm stressed and I'm going to go that way as well.

Leah Ball :

Yeah, I mean, me and my sister always kind of, we didn't want it to define us. We didn't want to be a statistic of an abusive childhood where they've just carried that on or they've then not done anything with themselves or anything like that. I decided right from the get go as soon as I started secondary school. I am 100% definitely going to university. I'm going to be the first person My family to go. I'm going to graduate with a degree and I did it. I've just graduated now I worked my way up. I had a job for most of that had a job from the moment I was 15. And my sister she is working so hard to get a deposit to buy her first house. She's so adamant that she will not rent she will buy a first house and she will do that very soon. And she works very hard. She takes all the overtime so you can have again, she's such a hard worker in her job like I've never met anyone like it. She'll work holiday off and they'll call her up and say actually we could do with you in and she'll go in on her days that she's booked holiday off. She never gets days off like she's absolutely incredible. But that's because she's got that goal of I will buy my first house I am not renting, not in this climate I want somewhere that I can say is mine. I want to say I worked hard for at this age and I've got it

Joe Pearson :

build her home because one of her homes was disrupted. Wasn't however long time

Leah Ball :

Yeah, I mean, I don't know why how exact strive is to buy but that's the goal that she's picked, how he didn't want to go to university, how he was very reluctant kind of to go to college she was never somebody that wanted to continue learning in academics and she's very keen to learn hands on. She's very into her job she's very into say, like, car, she loves her car, things like that. But in terms of Yeah, like reading in English and Maths and stuff that wasn't something that interested Chloe. And so she went to college when she had to she took a one year course she was very fortunate. We're both September babies. So by the time it came to our second year, she legally did not need to be in college anymore. So she just did one year, and she's continuously worked ever since. And I strongly believe within the next two years, she'll have a full house look around.

Joe Pearson :

It's interesting to me that people that often come from the suburbs, situations have this incredible desire and this work rate to the lot of people that don't come their situations just don't have. And I think it's something that I personally have had an incredible environment for parents that, you know, allowed mistakes to happen. And it was a nice open environment, you know, and it doesn't mean I don't work hard, but I certainly haven't got that. That kind of burning desire to prove my worth to the world that a lot of people come from these really bad situations.

Gordon Hall :

Yeah, I think Same here, I definitely took for granted growing up how lucky I was to be an environment where my parents were together in that sense, and I think the story that you've shared and the fact that you've come through all of that, and you've just graduated uni, you're doing great in work, you're in a great relationship. You've got a great flat. You're like doing really well for yourself. And yet it came from all of this. It just shows that it what you go through as a kid doesn't have to define you what you're where you've come from. And the story that's happened to you so far doesn't have to define you. And I think you, your dad, your sister, Lucy of all kind of proved that in this, like situation. And that's incredible. And you should be proud of yourself for that.

Leah Ball :

Yeah, I mean, one of the things that my mom said to me when we had kind of supervised visits with Child Services will say at one of their kind of buildings, my mom time round was like yet you weren't good enough for me. So why on earth do you think you'll be good enough for anybody or anything else? And that was probably the visit just before it was finalised before she turned around and said, I only wanted you for the child money. And it always stuck with me that she genuinely believed that me and my system wasn't going to be successful, that my dad was going to struggle and he was going to lose everything. And we were also determined to be against that we were not going to prove her right, we were not going to entertain her thoughts of us failing. And I definitely wanted to prove that I would not be one of those statistics because it is proven that children who grow up in these kind of homes and struggles then don't get to go to university, they don't get to do everything that they dream of. And I was very determined to go against that all through my GCSEs I worked so hard, like I've never worked harder than I did for my GCSEs whilst having a job at the same time to earn my own money. So then I could also have experience when I went to university it was all planned out in my head. I'll get a job now what I do my GCSE so I'll have at least two years experience by the time I go to uni, so I can get any job in any city that I want. To go to university it was all planned out. And yeah only worked in a small little family run business in a little garden centre down the road. But it was a job I was on a payroll there my references, and it did it opened doors for me I got all the grades I needed for GCSE to take my a levels, carried on, did my levels got all my grades for university and as soon as I decided, I am going to Manchester before I even fully been accepted. I was job hunting. I was like, right, where can I work in Manchester? What's going to suit me what's going to pay the bills, but also give me enough time to explore the city in first year. And then once I got my acceptance letter, I'd probably say within about a month I had my job secured in Manchester. I had to travel from Canada to Manchester in one day for an interview, which was at Primark which Yeah, it's not an incredible job to have, but it was a job. They let me in. I had the experience in retail customer service I was in the door straightaway, I had an interview. And they were very impressed that I travelled that day from can just for an interview and I had a job that next week, and

Gordon Hall :

I wasn't gonna lie that when I did that didn't give me a job. Yeah.

Leah Ball :

Yeah, so then and they were really good to me actually. I said, right. Well, I've been a bit optimistic I'm not actually moving to Manchester until this day in September. They were like no worries on this date two days after you move in we'll have you in on your first shift and they did and I was in the door had a job straight away. I was the only person in my halls The only person in my course that had a job security Manchester that wasn't from Manchester and I did not I worked all the way through I've always done it through all my studies GCSEs A Levels uni and I've got where I am now. I've got money secured for things that I need. And, and yeah, I managed to get everything that I ever wanted.

Joe Pearson :

In this kind of pandemic shows you that desire and motivation and the willingness just just to work hard will go a long way. And it's exactly what the employer wants. So there's jobs out there, there's jobs out there, you just got to work a little bit harder than people and you've got to show up and you've got to be confident, because an experience that you've talked about today gives you confidence, it gives you confidence. And you say, you have that little points approve, you know, and you put you kind of learn and understand your past more than maybe the everyday person and you understand why certain things shape you the way they are. And you use it to your advantage, not your disadvantage.

Leah Ball :

Yeah. I mean, it still affects me now, like, don't get me wrong. I'll still have nightmares about it. Like it doesn't ever completely leave you. I've been left with a lot of anxiety for certain things and aspects. And they kind of confrontations fights, things that are scammy. I do get very upset over things like that. I always believe that it doesn't matter how good you are at something. As long as you've got a one or a drive for it, you can achieve it. And it's very true. And yes, some of the things that I've tried to go for I have not had the actual achievements to go and get that, but I've got it. I've got my job where I am not because I was just handed it on a play. I, when I actively searched for that, and I went, you know what, I don't have any experience in that specific area. But I've done customer service before. So let's give it a shot. And I went through every interview stage whilst doing my degree, carried on work and all of that, and I got the job and I'm still there today. I was never qualified in that area. And I'm very lucky to be in a company that don't believe you need to have an expertise in that area either. Yeah, which was very good that I had the same mindset as the business but It doesn't matter whether you're completely qualified or whether you're absolutely amazing that that area, if you don't have a drive or a one, you just won't succeed in it, you have to push yourself, you have to want to do that I would have never got through university if I didn't have that drive. And I don't need a degree in the area that I want to go into. It's not something that's necessary, but I wanted it. I wanted to go to university and I wanted to graduate. And I've got that and now I've got my own goals. Now for the future. After that, I've got everything set in my head, what I want to do in my current job, what I want to do in things outside of that job, where I want to be in terms of housing and things like that, I've got it all planned out in my head, and I believe that's how you should be if you want to be successful.

Joe Pearson :

Yeah, it's a lot and it's a mindset that not alone. Many people have, they kind of float along and they get stuck in this job. And they don't have those kind of holistic views of their own life. And go I'm this age, this is where I'm at now this is where I want to be in a year's time. It's it's hard to do, it's not easy. It's not easy particularly, like we're seeing people that are in a very relaxed environment growing up, which is what you want people to have. It's open mindedness, it's almost easy in a way that you've got a lot of things done for you. But it can make you lazy in later life it can. So you have to recognise if you're one of those people, right? How often Am I doing these kinds of things? You kind of give yourself a little review. How am I getting on with life? You know, am I happy with where I am? You know if you're single or if you're in a relationship how my doing everything I can to make that situation better?

Leah Ball :

Yeah, I mean, I'm also very comfortable with sacrifice which a lot of people don't have

Joe Pearson :

Allah test that you a lot more than me my Allah like an incredible amount. Yeah, my

Leah Ball :

Feist a lot for me. And I've had to sacrifice a lot to get through to where I am. I was never afraid to sacrifice something because I saw my dad sacrifice everything. I saw my stepmom sacrifice a lot of things. So when it came to university and being like, Oh right, I don't have that much money left until payday, but every single person on my course is going on a big night out. I'd be like, you know what, I'm going to sacrifice that night out because actually I want to get a proper food shopping. And I'd rather have that then have one night out and I didn't go on all the nights out. I did get to experience like freshers week I did still get to have that full uni life, but I wasn't ever excessive. And now I'll happily sacrifice a takeaway or a night out or any kind of group event if I know that that will benefit me money wise or mentally or things like that. I'm happy to put myself first while also putting others first in different situations. And I don't think a lot of people have that a lot of people are scared of sacrifice. A lot of people are so Fish or one, the immediate gratification that they're going to get straight away like, Oh, well, I could spend my last few pounds on this night owl and have a great time that night. And then future me can deal with the consequences later. I'm always thinking of what future me has to do. I won't ever think about the now how will this affect me in the future? Whether that's a couple of days, months, years, how will that affect me? And I'm very easily able to just go You know what, not tonight, not today,

Joe Pearson :

you taught me the value in that something I struggled with a long time. I wanted instant gratification all the time, and do this now. And I don't find that will sort itself out. And also it doesn't, it doesn't sort itself out. You end up with this big mess and kind of worms that you have to kind of push back in and it takes kind of quite a few months and it all falls out again and you keep going over and over and over and over again. And I'm sure there'd be a lot of people listening who fall Exactly. into that category. But you can change. It's an adult mindset you have to put yourself in. And it sounds boring, but it's not. It's really not. And in the kind of homes we're in right now, it's exactly what you're going to need to get by. Because people are losing jobs left, right and centre. And it's something that our generation so people are kind of age. I've never really experienced properly. There's always been into the job and other company popping up. Or you can now be an influencer and things like that. What's the last new job? You heard about this popping up? Not really happening till design team testing track and trace? There you go. There you go. No needs to be that. We were talking earlier about a traffic warden. I don't think the little kid when people that I want to be an astronaut and I want to be a doctor, I don't think anyone's going traffic warden. I want to wear the orange suit and have that weird Palm Pilot grey colour on me.

Leah Ball :

I can vouch for that.

Joe Pearson :

Gordon, I believe we've been coding for quite a while you have Have a question. A final question.

Gordon Hall :

Yes. So, Lear Obviously, we've spoken about the situation that happened with your mom. And you said that you've not seen her for about 10 years or so. Yeah. So a long lot of time has passed since then. If you were to see your mom now, in the street or somewhere, what would you say to her? How would you react?

Leah Ball :

I mean, to be honest, I would probably just walk past but if I was given that opportunity, where we were like, right, you've got to say something, then, I'd probably just asked her why I'd love to know why they were her last words to me. I'd love to know why she thought I was such a disappointment. I'd love to know why she thought I wasn't going to be successful. I'd love to know why. She only saw us as a cash grab, because she never actually got any money from us. She never she got the house. And yes, she made money from that but she didn't get the child benefit. She also didn't pay that to my dad. She still owes thousands of pounds to my dad for when we were under 18. But yeah, I just like to know why if I'm honest and then yeah, probably a big Fuck off. Like, I, I will never forgive her for what she did. And you shouldn't. Yeah. And I mean, me and my sister always used to play this game with each other, like, cool. If somebody rang you up on your mom's dead? Would you go to the funeral? would you do this? Mouse has always No, it doesn't matter if she dies. It doesn't matter if something happens. I've raised her from my main memory. Yes, I still get nightmares and things have still affected me because of that. But in my head, I can't forgive. I would not go to a funeral. I would never forgive her or anything like that. She's out of my life. She made that decision. She did everything towards me. And she needs to take accountability of the actions and then take the consequences that now I don't want anything to do with it. She ever changed her mind. She had the opportunity to send us birthday cards, Christmas cards, she had the opportunity to contact us through post it was all in legal writing. And she never did. She had the right to appeal those.

Joe Pearson :

Yes, definitely legally, she can still contact you. She can send you a letter. You don't have to do anything with that. But she still could

Leah Ball :

well now she or she can contact me however she likes on social media. she can do whatever she wanted. If she got hold of my phone number legally, she is allowed to give me a call send me attacks, but she never did. And the only people that ever do reach out are her sister or her brother. And I have no time for them either. Because they lie to me every single year. If they were honest and said yes, we know what happened. Yes, we attended court. But actually we know it was wrong. And we just kind of want to rebuild that relationship because you have aunties, uncles, cousins, all my cousin's on that side and my age, we were very close knit in age. We could have done everything. With each of them, they were raised from my life. They don't know why I left. And they don't know why they don't see me and I don't get to see them. I lost that opportunity to have those relationships. So I would just kind of want to know why. And then erase it all again. I wouldn't want to try and

Joe Pearson :

find a loser anyway, I guess you just again, even if the reasons what she said before, Alicia, you know, why still? That's concrete in her head. Because you never know. It should be like, if I'm honest, I don't know. I was lost. Mentally. I was fucked. I was lost. I said all kinds of shit. I don't think I meant it. You know, that, I guess would be better in a way. You still wouldn't let back into your life you go on. And that's it.

Leah Ball :

Yeah. I mean, who knows? We don't even know if she still thinks of us. For we know she could be like, oh, what are they up to now? Who knows if she can even remember our names like we know absolutely nothing, but it's probably best that way.

Joe Pearson :

Yeah, given the situation. Maybe that's partly what comes into her, she might have had a realisation when they you know, 10 years have passed. It's a long time, even for a fully grown Otto. And the way she was the must be part of her is had a big thing about things in some way, shape or form. I would hope so anyway. And there's the person like that. You don't know it might be too far down the line. And mentally that doors closed. Yeah.

Leah Ball :

I mean, I would hope so too. But at the same time, she made her decision. She acted the way she did. And I've got Lucy, I don't need her. I've got my dad and Lacey. I've got Lucy's entire family. I get treated like a celebrity. Sometimes By the way, they post me on social media. I would never swap that for a million years. If I was ever given the opportunity to go back and go, okay, you can change that and have your mom in your life and everything doesn't go the way it did or relive everything you went through and still get Lucy I picked that every time I would never go back and change Anything to do with my mum, PC 100%.

Gordon Hall :

And it sounds like you are in a much better place now, despite everything that you went through for having Lucy in your life for having your dad in your life and your sister in your life, and despite everything you've been through, it seems like things are going okay for you now. And I think that's inspiring to hear that you've come through this. I think it's heartbreaking that you went through that and when I think what would have happened if you didn't go through that where you could be I don't know, maybe you would. Like Joe was saying maybe it took that for you to get to the point where you are. We don't know that. But what you where you are now, I'd say you should be very proud of the person that you are the person that you've grown to be. And I say that is a credit to both yourself but also to your dad and to Lucy For the influence that they've had on your life,

Leah Ball :

yeah, I mean, who knows what it would have been like, if I hadn't have had that womanly figure in my life, it could have all gone downhill for me, I probably wouldn't have even spoken to a woman again, it hit very hard in terms of the way that the women in my life at that point had let me down had hurt me. But Lucy was a saviour in that she did everything that a mother would do and more. She taught me all of the things that you would learn from your mother like from normal things like periods that mums teach that girls growing up fairly quickly, like Lucy helped me with that of, Okay, this is actually how it is. And she took it from a motherly figure but also, as I'm not your mom, so let's talk about it in a different way and different aspects and she never like pussyfoot around anything. She was very to the point And if we did wrong, we knew about it. But it wasn't in any way that my mom did. And I honestly don't know how she did it. She didn't have kids. She hadn't ever experienced a situation like this before. But she was absolutely incredible. And we still don't know how she done it, but she continues to do it every day.

Joe Pearson :

And that's a perfect place. And yeah, a lovely positive spin. Yeah.

Gordon Hall :

To ask you for the good news. But I'd say, Lucy, you're the good news.

Joe Pearson :

Yeah. Shout out to Lucy. You're the good news. We're finishing her degree.

Gordon Hall :

Yeah, that's absolutely

Joe Pearson :

yeah. Biggest time to have good news, I would say thank you so much.

Leah Ball :

Yeah. Thank you for having me.

Joe Pearson :

That was the end Our chat with Leah a fantastic chart, obviously something I've had kind of on and off as I've been with Leah, I'm sure you got to know him bits and pieces of that. Now you've got the full picture. And incredible story and she's come on, it's so well.

Gordon Hall :

Yeah, definitely. I'd say I didn't know much of that story at all. Before we had that chat, but after hearing it, definitely, really interesting. And yeah, thank you so much, Leah, for sharing that. And we hope to hear from you again. Further down the line. I mean, Leah is a big part of the Liminal podcasts family, obviously she is dating Joe, in case you didn't realise eating bait is a very American term. I apologise, sorry, okay. She is courting Joe. In case you didn't realise, but yeah, she's also massively part of helping to make the podcast happen helping us on social media and stuff like that. So thank you so much, Leah. Joe. What have we got coming up?

Joe Pearson :

Now we've got exciting exciting guests a lot of people pencilled in I will say if you've got a similar story to Leo or you've got something like that a massive massive change in your life certainly get in touch I guess at the Liminal podcast calm no it's not get a little desktop

Gordon Hall :

limit lists go to guests dot the Liminal pod comm fill in the form and we'll get back to you.

Joe Pearson :

Yeah, certainly do and even if you think you're not sure maybe it's not that interesting. Gordon will no doubt let you know as he's the admin guy, so he'll be checking through those.

Gordon Hall :

Yep, just give me even more work. So that's fine. You can take some of it yourself if you want, but nope, fine. Just give it all to me. That's fine. Yeah, and enjoys it. You just enjoy it. I don't complain. So yeah, if you enjoyed the show, please do leave us a rating or review. We read every single one of the reviews. You can review us on Apple podcasts. You can reviews on Stitcher, or you can head to pod chaser and actually read You individual episodes if you like what you're hearing today, go in if this episode or like, give it five stars, and let me know what you thought of her conversation.

Joe Pearson :

Yeah, we appreciate the ratings reviews a lot, it means a lot to us, actually, we're actually really getting interest now. And if you want to further support the show, we're going to be able to make that happened. We're looking at patreon news to come maybe in the next week or two. And obviously, that would mean potentially some extra content and obviously support for the show. So the quality and the variety of guests and all that kind of thing will just go up another level.

Gordon Hall :

Yeah, absolutely. We want to keep making this show as better and better and better every single week. And in order to do that, it does require a lot of work from both of us, and also other people and we want to keep making that higher and higher. So your support would definitely help us in that and we want to create some really great content for you to reward you for that as well. So if you check out the luminal pod calm in the new next few weeks You'll be seeing some updates there.

Joe Pearson :

We'll let you know next week. We've got some pretty exciting ideas if you've got any ideas for what we could do for Patreon, do let us know as well. Hello at the liminal.com

Gordon Hall :

basically any ideas, any feedback, any criticism, anything, just send it hello to

Joe Pearson :

and that'll round us off very nicely. He's still with us now. Thank you so much for joining us this week.

Gordon Hall :

Bye.

Joe Pearson :

Massive Thank you, Haley. Hurry was fantastic music go check it out. And then finally, Leah who joined us today everything